Zebra 3 and Zebra Legacy

[Lyhrus]

That's just like your opinion, is it? Mine is different and where does this lead us?

This topic on Zebra3/Zebra Legacy was started by Urs himself, so it is a good place to discuss the GUI of Zebra3, too, as it is obviously important at least for some of us.
Some like the current UI of Zebra2/TDZ, some not at all, some don't. I find it interesting to hear about the different reasons: is it just about the colours, is it about workflow, is it about straining the CPU, etc?

A brief remark on 'Plugmon or not': At the bottom of the Hive product page u-he themselves recommend the "Izmo skin" as an alternative skin for Hive. Which is "created by the very talented GUI designer Yuta Yoshimatsu (a.k.a. Plugmon)" (quote from there) ... https://u-he.com/products/hive/

I at least would be grateful to get UI alternatives for Zebra3 again. I formerly suggested a (paid) skin designer, but I understand that this may be overblown. But maybe a PSD-file (paid)? Or just 2 or 3 inhouse alternatives or some other created by Plugmon and further designers.

[Mmk41]

I still think all modulation should be in the same place.

I prefer the paradigm of "on-target modulation depths". Which is why we've added on-target ModMatrix editing in Hive, so modulations via ModMatrix can be edited without observing 3 different parts of screen estate (modulator, target, ModMatrix).

My point was that there should only be one type of modulation.

[Urs]

I still think all modulation should be in the same place.

I prefer the paradigm of "on-target modulation depths". Which is why we've added on-target ModMatrix editing in Hive, so modulations via ModMatrix can be edited without observing 3 different parts of screen estate (modulator, target, ModMatrix).

My point was that there should only be one type of modulation.

Unfortunately, there won't. However, the ModMatrix-style modulation as well as direct modulations will become more similar than they used to.

[M_Helder]

Hi Urs,

I just wanted to express my gratitude for honouring your initial promise and providing us with such a customer-friendly approach to upgrades. I am sure Zebra3 will be another proud achievement in the already impressive u-he catalogue and a must-buy on release.

Looking forward to it!

[operator]

I prefer the paradigm of "on-target modulation depths". Which is why we've added on-target ModMatrix editing in Hive, so modulations via ModMatrix can be edited without observing 3 different parts of screen estate (modulator, target, ModMatrix).

TBH, I would also prefer a unified modulation-system (Mod-Matrix + "all-time-visible-on-target-depths"). I must admit, that it happens to me somtimes too, that I miss/lose a modulation and must "search" for it due to "direct modulation slot" being used. Also when I have to balance out multiple modulations against each other it is better to do it all in the matrix than at two different locations [or with "on-target-mod-depth" due to the visiblity limitation in Hive]

For sure it would be a reason to keep them due to the 800 Hz limitation in the Matrix--> but then I somehow would rather like to see this as a quality option for the Matrix (if possible) "Run Mod-Matrix at audio-rate". When I look over to Bitwig, there is something that I would also like to see as a standard for Zebra3 --> everything (pre FX) runs at audio-rate.

In Vital or MSoundFactory I love to use the LFOs in "Keytrack" (follow note pitch)... of course this isn´t as clean as regular FM/PM (depends on upsample factor)... but for AM and other [gritty] stuff it works great.

BTW, Vital`s mod-matrix and "on target depth" is just amazing... I don´t know any better. A good example of its wholestic UX/UI design --> One can easily create "via" modulation directly by drag`n`drop without the need of a mod-matrix. Or "test out" modulation on different targets by just hoovering over the target with pressed mouse-click (from source). Or adjusting mod-depth with mouse-wheel before finally assigning the modulation. This way you can fly over the synth and test out modulations "non-destructivly" in seconds. In others synth testing out mod-targets take soooo much more unnecessary clicks...

[kalisblack]

The GUI of Zebra2 was great for a long time - but they've sort of been left in the dust compared to newer VSTs... but who wouldn't be after 10+ years?

That's just like your opinion, is it? Mine is different and where does this lead us?

I am not trying to be snarky but I hope you realize or at least can think in a way that something being "old" or created at some point in the past does not equally mean in fact inferior.

10 years is nothing. I mean just look at your everyday life. We are being bombarded with new and better and then we rehash or try to take it back where it was before - because it turns out that "new" doesn't mean exactly "better".

Take the creation of movies today and then compare this aspect to just 10 years ago and tell me what the hell is happening. I am not speaking about CGI but storytelling or editing. As if quantity or "newness" repacked in controversy if possible or current social dilemmas mean better. It does not.

Crap I went off offtopic...sorry to everyone

I do hear what you're saying. I don't disagree with most of what you write either. I get it... people take offense when people say things like "I speak for most people". In all honestly, I firmly believe I do though, lol... I MEAN WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT GUI?! Anyways, not trying to spark any fire here. Honestly, that was the last thing I wanted. I just hope that Urs reads some of this and takes it into some consideration, that's really all there is to any of my posts. We all contribute something to tell the developers about what we like, and what we don't... they make the final judgment call, and their sales will tell them if they made the right judgment calls.

I do find it somewhat funny that Urs and mmk just continue their conversations amidst all this chaos in the forum as if nothing else is happening here, lol. Let me just say this... I'm excited for Zebra3. Finding this forum sparked something in me like... man... I'm really looking forward to the next Zebra. It is really one of my favorite synths. There are some synths that just retain their value over time. For me Zebra is simply just one of those synths. I've always been one to tear apart presets or make my own though. Looking forward to what the future holds for this thing!

[Sound Author]

I have a winning strategy: Let Urs do whatever the hell he wants.

[Sound Author]

I jest, of course. I'm sure Urs is (and has always been) very open to suggestions. I just look at it this way: Every single u-he synth is awesomesauce. No exceptions. So I'm just gonna sit back and wait for something incredible to happen.

I remember the old unofficial Zebra 3 thread years ago. People flooded that thread with all order of nonsense and it was eventually shut down (for reasons I can't remember). I'm not accusing anyone here of any particular "nonsense". I just hope that doesn't happen again.

Urs has given us hit after hit. Maybe let's just take the hit. No pressure, Urs.

[TENETfanboy]

I agree, I know it’ll be sick. I mean, it could just be a repackaged ZebraHZ and it’d be sick lol, all the new stuff he’s talked about it’s sure to be absolutely insane

[NAD]

Have any of you stopped to consider that maybe we're giving the poor fellow performance anxiety from the pressure of all our wild expectations and hyperbolic flattery? Maybe we should change course and start acting like Z3 ain't no big deal, ya know? Being a dev on KVR must be stressful enough as it is. Here, I'll start:

I really hope Z3 has a low-pass filter. Let's wait and see.

[pdxindy]

BTW, Vital`s mod-matrix and "on target depth" is just amazing... I don´t know any better. A good example of its wholestic UX/UI design --> One can easily create "via" modulation directly by drag`n`drop without the need of a mod-matrix. Or "test out" modulation on different targets by just hoovering over the target with pressed mouse-click (from source). Or adjusting mod-depth with mouse-wheel before finally assigning the modulation. This way you can fly over the synth and test out modulations "non-destructivly" in seconds. In others synth testing out mod-targets take soooo much more unnecessary clicks...

Vital's modulation system is exceptional.

The Mod ReMap functionality is so powerful and flexible. It's great for MPE presets. Also stuff like using a simple ramp LFO and modulate a handful of destinations and each destination can have a different curve including like a stepped sequence and then the timing of all those destinations can be easily controlled by the LFO itself. Some very creative possibilities.

[operator]

Vital's modulation system is exceptional.

[operator]

---

[gentleclockdivider]

Direct modulation slots run at a much higher resolution than ModMatrix slots. For performance reasons ModMatrix Slots are evaluated at about 800Hz whereas direct modulation slots are evaluated at about 10kHz.

Are you talking about zebra 2 ?
I don't hear any difference modulating the amp of an osc by a(verry fast looped ) looped envelope (instant attack ) using direct versus mod.matrix
Here's the example , left channel osc1 amp modulated by env , righ channel Osc 2 modulated by same envelope but using modmatrix (modmatrix amount set to half ), both osc's set to restart .
NOt sure what the max freq. is of a verry fast looped envelope but I guess it's not near a 1000Hz
Example , gradually shortening the decay stage of the looped envelope .
Output of both channels is identical ,with total phase cancelation when inverting one channel
If the modmatrix reso is 1/10 the of direct mod , aliasing should occur in the right channel when looped envelope is at max (loop) speed , no ?
How come they sound equal ?

Here's the audio exmple
https://app.box.com/s/vklybqj83k34ixjhfcwwsorqetj6mxjg

[Urs]

Interesting. Aligns with some observations I had with Hive where I thought that surely running the ModMatrix at 3kHz would make a big difference - and then didn't.