When it comes to presets I...

[emdot_ambient]

Worrying about the less than 1% of people in the world that are VSTi musicians listening to your music and 'recognizing' a sound, I think is silly.

Amen. If you've got Albino 2, Oddity, FM7 or any other of the NI synths, plus Synth 1 'cause it's free, you've probably got over 4,800 presets at your fingertips. So if anyone's geek enough to pick out what preset you're using on any given song . . . they've got way too much time on their hands and should probably invest more energy in getting a life.

I didn't respond to the poll becuase . . . I use them, I change them to sound like somehting else, and I use them for inspiration. If a preset inspires me to write a particular song, then I build the song up around that one preset and only tweak the preset enough for it to fit into a mix. But when I'm adding a synth to an already-in-progress song, I find a preset close to what I want and change it (sometimes drastically) so it fits my needs. And when I'm doing sound desig, I often use presets as a springboard, investigating a preset that does something unique, find out what it does, capitalize on the re-engineering process and apply it to something totally new.

I'm a pragmatist. Use what works. Change what doesn't. Learn from others. The end result is what's important, not the ethical pretense of how one "should" work.

[Hovmod]

Worrying about the less than 1% of people in the world that are VSTi musicians listening to your music and 'recognizing' a sound, I think is silly.

Amen. If you've got Albino 2, Oddity, FM7 or any other of the NI synths, plus Synth 1 'cause it's free, you've probably got over 4,800 presets at your fingertips. So if anyone's geek enough to pick out what preset you're using on any given song . . . they've got way too much time on their hands and should probably invest more energy in getting a life.

I agree.
However, on several occasions I've heard songs or melodies in commercials or jingles which I KNOW has been assembled like legos using sounds from one folder on a sample CD because I own the same CD. Then it's not a game of active trainspotting, it's a matter of just noticing how little work some people do and get paid for it. One guy here in Norway made a song for a commercial using a bass groove and a drum loop from the extra CD that came with a coldcut CD. I know because I've played around with it too, making pretty much the same song... Taking two (OK, three) aiff files from a CD, looping them and selling the result is sweet work if you can get it I suppose...

Apart from that I DO react when I hear songs made with presets or loops I recognize, particularly melodic and rhythmic stuff.

I do it myself some times, but I don't get paid for it and I don't pretend I didn't.

[deggy]

honestly, if a sound's a good sound, then use it. It's just that I find I have noodle with things a bit to get it work for the particular track or piece that i'm working on... So I seldom use presets but I have nothing against them. Often, they're some of the best patches that the manufacturer could come up with so they're often quite decent. Also, even though many of my patches might be altered, some of the time they're still recognizable (you can often hear where I got them from in the first place).

That said, some presets develop a life of their own and they occupy an insteresting place in pop culture music because soo many people end up using such a recognizable sound.

(i.e., that electric piano sound from the Yamaha DX7 and some of those Roland D50 and Korg M1 sounds and nowadays, the Korg Micro organ patch [thanks to the killers et al])

[RTaylor]

The attitude that it's "ok" to use presets, samples and loops means that many people do just that rather than doing the research, practice and sheer work that's involved in making quality art. ...This gives you "kit" art that's not usually worth the time it takes to listen to it... It's the same idea as paint by numbers and model kits. Strictly for hobbyists.

I suppose I should have noted in the beginning that I'm referring to hobbyists, amateurs or whatever one might call them. Not necessarily in terms of skill level but rather in terms of compensation (none) or desire for monetary return (none again). I'm guessing that well over 80 percent (probably 90 plus percent) of those on KVR are not professionals. I don't think the software music market would exist in its current form without a large number of hobbyists to support it.

It's really quite amazing the quality of software synths for a fraction of what hardware versions would cost, bringing this aspect of music into reach for many. But would most hobbyists do much with them without presets? I really doubt it.

Why would a hobbyist, with no deadlines or limitations not spend extra time getting things perfect? I can see someone who's a beginner learning that way but, eventually, you'd think that anyone would want to develop their own sound.

...Unfortunately, I think the whole thing has fostered a sort of "it's good enough" attitude. Artists are content with less and the public really has no choice but to be content with that. Why is it, do you think, that most electronic music gets so little respect in serious music circles?

I think there are two answers here. First, the good enough attitude seems far less obvious with truly talented artists who hold themselves to high standards.

Yeah.

But, at the same time, it does seem to be true that the typical consumer of music is content with even marginal work, which may be why they are also more than willing to spend 99 cents for a 128-bit DRM music file. The role of presets, samples and loops in this is difficult to assess, however, because even without these most of the stuff being released is basically crap.

Much of that is in the marketing... something that we should be able to get around with the internet. Alternatives need to be available to those people who care to take advantage of them. Hopefully, over time, that means that standards will improve and that the consumer will less readily accept "the greatest band since sliced bread" or "God musta written this tune" or "a miracle of contemporary, musical genius, that's hip without hoppin' and whatever marketspeak keyword works with search engines this week".

As for electronic music, I started a thread a couple months ago about this on the basis of an article in Sound on Sound about this very topic. Electronica seems a disposable music form, but the reasons go beyond the use of presets and so on. I have sort of developed a theory about this.

I believe the vast majority of electronica lacks those qualities that make some music stick with us, play over and over in our heads, and create emotional bonds with us. And electronica is essentially synonymous with dance, not listening -- a huge difference. Some of it may have something to do with the bpm, although the Ramones and Green Day proved that this isn't always an issue.

I don't think that's true at all. I think electronic {I really wish they hadn't screwed up the term "electronica"} music can be as expressive and as technically impressive as any other form of music. I don't listen to much "dance" electronic other than synthpop... I prefer bands like TD and Autechre and so on... I think "dance" is synonymous with dance. I think dance sells records though.

Preset and samples are probably ideal for electronica, but again, I don't see this making these tools less compelling in other types of music in which melodies prove appealing in the ways of serious music. Artists such as Vangelis, Ray Lynch and others have proved that synth-derived music can have the qualities of music we remember and cherish.

"Ideal" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't want to buy or make music that sounds like everything else... not using sounds that sound like everything else is one way to assure, from the get-go, that I'll not be doing that. It's a start in the right direction at any rate. Presets and samples are probably much less an issue than loops but, I think the attitudes surrounding the whole thing are the real issue. I'm tired of people working at proving the "no originality" idea and {especially} using it as an excuse to turn out crap. ...It's just tired. Most of us got the point twenty years ago. It's time to do something new.

Yeah. Jarre, Schulze, Froese, ELP, Yes, Stockhausen, Sakamoto, Einstürzende Neubauten, Puppy, Dissecting Table, Tuxedomoon, the synthpop bands in the '8os, etc, etc, etc...

[Bonteburg]

Presets shmesets.... I use what presets I like and roll my own when needed/as the mood strikes me - it's not like it's a religion or something ???

Marco

[RTaylor]

Presets shmesets.... I use what presets I like and roll my own when needed/as the mood strikes me - it's not like it's a religion or something ???

Marco

I bet you do...

I'm assuming that schmesets are presets designed by Johannes Schmoelling?

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

[exp_cj]

For me it depends on how good the presets are. Also on how obvious they sound. SO for a big program everyone's got like reason (which i don't use) i would mess with all the presets because they sound obvious.

[Bonteburg]

I bet you do...

I'm assuming that schmesets are presets designed by Johannes Schmoelling?

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

[BONES]

I use them as they are...but that's because I make them.

Clearly you don't use them much, then. 90% or more of presets would need to be tweaked to fit into a mix. I don't feel teh need to work from a blank preset every time but I certainly have yet to find a preset that is perfect out of the box. I tend to use them as starting points - I can use the same basic preset in a few different songs with a couple of tweaks and it can take on a very different character, especially after EQ and some effects have been added. For example, for a bass patch I always adjust the envelope timings to match the tempo of the track I am using it in. Even using different velocity modulation can be enough to make the exact same patch sound completely different. Here's a quick example. It is the same patch playing the same notes, just the velocities have been altered. Its straight out of ORION with no effects or EQ.
http://www.novakill.com/stuff/WaspXTvelocity.wav

[emdot_ambient]

...on several occasions I've heard songs or melodies in commercials or jingles which I KNOW has been assembled like legos using sounds from one folder on a sample CD...One guy here in Norway made a song for a commercial using a bass groove and a drum loop from the extra CD that came with a coldcut CD...Taking two (OK, three) aiff files from a CD, looping them and selling the result is sweet work if you can get it I suppose...

I don't actually think of sample CD loops as presets. They're either used in lieu of an actual performance (MIDI or otherwise) or they're chopped up and manipulated as audio fodder, or mangled and played via a sampler, at which point they do kind of become a preset. But in and of themselves, I think of them more like oscillators: sound sources from which to generate a performance. What you're talking about is just plain lazy. But if you can get paid for it...what the hell?

[Reed]

If I like I use it. But, most of the time I find a preset I can use then tweak it a little when I hear it in the mix. I always save anything I tweak as a preset, but then the next time I use it I have to tweak it again to get it to sit in that mix.
It' may be best to save the preset as the name of the song you're creating. This simplifies identifying future needs.

[Nickasawyer]

I only use them if the synth sucks and someone was able to get a good sound out of it. The only other acception is if i'm on the run and use it for a space filler until I can make a good sound myself. Of coarse, some days you'll find one that is simply unbeatable, so you use that by its own.

[rogerlima]

On a professionally created site {even an amateur site} ...just like coffee shops do their own identity with labels, menus and graphics, magazines use their own content, retail stores/chains, television stations... anyone that's actually in business or that wishes to offer a worthwhile product that's distinguishable from the competitions.

As far as Motion Graphic i agree with you. TV Stations often have to be identified by their look and feel. As far the Audio, I often watch Station IDs in different Stations using the same audio track. The largest Stations such as ABC, NBC and etc happen to have the same audio library. "Video Helper" is used very often. They use a preset to mix with images and create something new.

Just my .02 cents...

Roger

[Kraku]

I don't like presets so I don't use them. There are a couple of cases in the history that I've actually used a preset, but those cases are quite rare.