Bitwig

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:01 am

Ogopogo wrote:Feedback fx was always there for the delays
>snip<

i know. i'm taking about _wet_ fx. like f.e. on the reverb device.

viceverser · Post by **viceverser** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:10 am

trippled88 wrote:
Eleventh wrote:
trippled88 wrote:Well I think controlling my stereo image is important enough to have mono channels as well
Why exactly do you need a dedicated mono channel for this?

trippled88 wrote:I never tried to use tool for that application, but honestly, a DAW that I need to use workarounds to get my signal to be mono?
You have a mono source -> your signal is mono. Simple as that?

trippled88 wrote:I honestly think that in order to use DAW's people should learn sound engineering to some extent, it is completely ridiculous to give up on mono channels to simplify things for people that didn't spend time to expand their very basic knowledge.
Ironic.

trippled88 wrote:And I say that cause the answers for my requests for Mono Channels, Fade Ins and better automation drawing tools were that they want to keep Bitwig simple.
Simplicity in this case is NOT convoluting the workflow to cater for those who don't understand stereo/mono summing, and hear the sound in stereo because they see two meters bouncing.

Ok, if you're still reading:

Mono channels are a relic from the older DAWs, back from time when DSP processing power was expensive and that affected design choices. More recent, forward-thinking DAWs like Bitwig and Reaper for example, have not implemented them anymore, because there is really no need for them from a DSP power perspective. Just like there's really no need to differentiate audio and MIDI tracks for example. This is all for the sake of usability and workflow - it's not about dumbing it down for new users..
Ironic you say?

Well, try to insert a 3rd party mono plugin on one of your tracks and you will notice that the stereo width of your source has changed, and now sounds center focused - like mono channels do. Using Multi Mono may not be stereo as both sides contain the same information, but it is not the same as mono either as far as the panning goes.

Try to send the signal to an AUX track with a stereo delay insert, if you do that from a track containing a mono insert of some sort, you'll get the source signal at the center with the stereo delay expanding the image. This creates stereo width with the mono source being still evident on the center, it sounds different if you do that with Bitwig's stereo "multi mono" tracks.

I mainly use Bitwig's plugins in order to save on CPU and get some basic EQ\Compression tasks done, at least in the beginning when I'm just creating the track. I honestly did not try to use Tool's width to try and fix this,
I tend to believe it would probably do the same thing as inserting a mono plugin, I just wonder why do we need to do this workaround to achieve something which is so basic in audio engineering.

There is more to mono\stereo then just saving on DSP, and older DAW's such as Pro Tools were\are used by recording studios that integrate consoles and outboard gear as part of their setup which use this terminology, aside of the fact that again, multi mono sounds different then mono.

You also have micing techniques like Mid Side where you use a mic set to a polarity of figure of 8 and another Cardioid Mic on top of it, for creating a wide stereo image of the recorded source. You would probably like your DAW to preserve the stereo image as it is captured by your mics and received on your tracking desk. Tracking engineers would probably never use Bitwig and it's not the subject, but mono tracks are there for a reason and not because of saving on DSP, or at least that wouldn't be the primary reason for that.

You could question my concerns without the condescending attitude, may I add.

I love Bitwig and will continue using it, I just think that it could implement some of the stuff I mentioned and that not everyone are coming necessarily from the Dev's background and I think that needs to be taken into consideration.

Mono tracks are not a relic, and the capacity to utilise them is fundamental to using true audio... I would suggest using the "Tool" and "FX Layer" x2 and pan then phase inverting to get a single mono... It is a pain, and I agree that it is a fundamental necessity for certain workflows. Unfortunately the main idea behind bitwig at the moment seems to be as a sketchpad, and less a serious mixing tool... Examples would be, no cross fades (Which clever engineers know how to use to drop plosives

...), No Mono (as in TRUE mono) control... Meaning that you have pan control for each L and R track, Not just their respective volumes.

These are VALID statements, and should be taken as such... I agree wholeheartedly with your Summation Sir and would advise to just keep plugging away at the developers and hope they have time and forethought to consider implementing these fundamentals before the competition gets there and they are stuck in the position of playing catch up, like they are currently... Not with everything mind you, but the basics are definitely coming late to the party in some areas.

All in all what BWS does it does well, let's just hope it isn't ONLY capable of being a one trick pony (Which I STRONGLY doubt, this team of Dev's seem hell bent on making "THE" Daw not just "A" Daw... As for people who belittle your warranted views, well... As my uncle always says, "No point in feeding Strawberries to pigs, when they will eat anything... They don't have the capacity to appreciate it."

Cheers... V.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:26 am

There is a thread for the mono talk now: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=440769

FortunOfficial · Post by **FortunOfficial** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:59 am

Hi all,
have the graphic glitches on OS X Yosemite been resolved?
1. VST windows always show up in the front, hence laying over all other opened windows
2. the beforementioned bug, that tool tips freeze

Also:
I often have this weird bling sound, when I wanna hit play via space bar and the focus isn't right. This is damn annoying

Dead0k · Post by **Dead0k** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:17 am

Late_Bloomer wrote:Can someone confirm if individual track height can be adjusted in arrangement view in 1.2? I mean adjusted freely; besides only two options currently available. This doesn't seem to be a much requested feature as far as I know, so I'm not holding my breath.

looks like it is still not adjustable. nobody confirms. I have been waiting for this handy feature too
PS: i dont have beta too.

adamlwatson · Post by **adamlwatson** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:22 am

ThomasHelzle wrote: P.S. And yes, I'm aware that I'm probably the only person getting as excited about a blue dot here...

No you aren't! I *love* this.

Raffi · Post by **Raffi** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:07 am

Can anyone confirm if the following issues are now fixed?

- browser only listing first 1000 files
- slow gui with larger projects> http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=437611
- playhead disappearing when drawing automation in clips

One other question; is it also possible to map the browser preview volume/tempo sync and preview play button to the keyboard/controller?

Many thanks for checking!

takaii · Post by **takaii** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:19 am

Raffi wrote:Can anyone confirm if the following issues are now fixed?

- browser only listing first 1000 files
- slow gui with larger projects> http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=437611
- playhead disappearing when drawing automation in clips

One other question; is it also possible to map the browser preview volume/tempo sync and preview play button to the keyboard/controller?

Many thanks for checking!

That with slower gui when a lot of midi is not fixed. My friemd confirmed this yesterday. I hoped for that a lot. I work a lot project in midi because i like to sound design and change things during project. The cpu is fine its just act slow selecting or moving and release.

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:49 am

Am I the only one who is missing the "fast forward/backward" arrows?
There is so much space left, why not bring them in back again?

I would not want to open the browser everytime?

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:54 am

xanthos wrote:Am I the only one who is missing the "fast forward/backward" arrows?
There is so much space left, why not bring them in back again?

I would not want to open the browser everytime?

Absolute, I often step through presents, the forward back should also be midi mappable

takaii · Post by **takaii** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:54 am

xanthos wrote:Am I the only one who is missing the "fast forward/backward" arrows?
There is so much space left, why not bring them in back again?

I would not want to open the browser everytime?

+1

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:54 am

What I dont understand....

There are REALLY important shortcuts for User Guides (!!)

or
Check for updates

but the long ago requested and for some users really workflow enhancer
"Open/Hide All Automation Lanes"
is not there?

qtheerearranger · Post by **qtheerearranger** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:05 am

One step at a time...

At least there is a shortcut manager now..

I imagine they will be aiming for more.

Logic, Studio One, and other daws usually add to their assignable shortcuts with each update and not just for new stuff for old features.

Give it time... trust me they know about that...

Its a lot easier to program shortcuts in the taskbar menus then it is things deep in the interface.

u-u-u · Post by **u-u-u** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:27 am

ronnyrydgren wrote:
xanthos wrote:Am I the only one who is missing the "fast forward/backward" arrows?
There is so much space left, why not bring them in back again?

I would not want to open the browser everytime?
+1

Hey, I guess with the new browser there will be really quick preset switching as well. Probably there is even a shortcut to open up the browser on a selected device. And then everything left to do is pressing up and down arrows. I'd really like that because with the new Favourites and Categoires which Dom mentioned we probably aren't restricted to switching through presets alphabetically but more customized (which doesn't mean that creative accidents don't happen anymore!

).

takaii · Post by **takaii** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:37 am

u-u-u wrote:
ronnyrydgren wrote:
xanthos wrote:Am I the only one who is missing the "fast forward/backward" arrows?
There is so much space left, why not bring them in back again?

I would not want to open the browser everytime?
+1
Hey, I guess with the new browser there will be really quick preset switching as well. Probably there is even a shortcut to open up the browser on a selected device. And then everything left to do is pressing up and down arrows. I'd really like that because with the new Favourites and Categoires which Dom mentioned we probably aren't restricted to switching through presets alphabetically but more customized (which doesn't mean that creative accidents don't happen anymore! ).

I will still miss not having that there, somtimes i dont know what i am after, choose carogory left and right? That is quickerbfornjuat browsing theough. But then it is without audition function. But will still miss the old i feel

its a fast easy way when u just want to toggle sounds. Guess it is just to get used to new browser

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Bitwig Studio 1.2 Beta 1