Q about playing blues scales

[dark.nowhere]

I've searched all over with no clear answer to this question. When playing on a blues scale, are chords typically made of the notes of the scale? Which should be minor and which should be major? I'm uncertain because I know the scale isn't naturally born of "western music theory", but is a product of fitting something alien to it.

TIA

[nuffink]

I've searched all over with no clear answer to this question. When playing on a blues scale, are chords typically made of the notes of the scale? Which should be minor and which should be major? I'm uncertain because I know the scale isn't naturally born of "western music theory", but is a product of fitting something alien to it.

TIA

Typically the chords are all (dominant) 7ths. In the classic blues progression these are the I7, IV7 and V7. You play the blues scale over these.

There are plenty of other chords you can play the blues scale over, here's a good paper from Jamey Aebersold with a bunch of variations... http://www.jazzbooks.com/miva/documents ... _blues.pdf

...and for those wondering what the "blues scale" is... http://www.jazzbooks.com/miva/documents ... _scale.pdf

[dark.nowhere]

Typically the chords are all (dominant) 7ths. In the classic blues progression these are the I7, IV7 and V7. You play the blues scale over these.

Thanks so much. That jives well with the tabs I've seen. I just needed to get that one piece of info to straighten everything else out.

[Marc Schonbrun]

There's one more derivation: Minor Blues. You can hear this in the classic "The Thrill is Gone."

In the key of C minor it's as follows:

Cm7 (4 Bars)
Fm7 (2 Bars)
Cm7 (2 Bars)
Ab7 (1 Bar)
G7 (1 Bar)
Cm7 (2 Bars)

[Download SOphist]

Apart from the blue scales, you should play with the blue notes (eg. on the referd F blues scale, you can use both the A flat (3m) and the A natural (3 Mj) in your playing; if you play them simultaneously, you'll cluster them and suggest the quarter tone between them - a major feature of the blues idiom, or so the theory says). just my 2 cents.

[nuffink]

Apart from the blue scales, you should play with the blue notes (eg. on the referd F blues scale, you can use both the A flat (3m) and the A natural (3 Mj) in your playing; if you play them simultaneously, you'll cluster them and suggest the quarter tone between them - a major feature of the blues idiom, or so the theory says). just my 2 cents.

Except for the IV7. Most blues players avoid the natural 3rd on the IV7. The b3 of the blues scale is the b7 of the IV7 and it's important for the progression that this isn't made ambiguous by "crushing" it with the natural 3rd.

[Sequoia_user]

"Stormy Monday" is another classic progression.

then you also have ice cream changes.

Also remember in blues, up is down and black is white. You can have a berklee degree, but until you do gigs in the chitlin circuit or my 2nd home of Kingston Mines will you get it. Not being negative, just giving you a good heads up.

I do gigs all the time where I is minor then IV and V are major..now, to some this is wrong to others its not, but some professors will tell you that I - IV - V is incorrect. Hey..just do the gig, get paid, go home.

Blues will also have the II V I, it might just be I IV, or maybe Just I V,

"I'll play the blues for you"
"Little Red Rooster"
"Don't you lie to me"

Anything by Jimmy Reed, is good for the LUMP.

A drummer told me this and he is so dead on.."Everything starts with the LUMP." ...you cant play a lump...you cant even make my burger right.

Almost forgot..Johnny Dollar.

[dark.nowhere]

I hear you.

[jancivil]

Apart from the blue scales, you should play with the blue notes (eg. on the referd F blues scale, you can use both the A flat (3m) and the A natural (3 Mj) in your playing; if you play them simultaneously, you'll cluster them and suggest the quarter tone between them - a major feature of the blues idiom, or so the theory says). just my 2 cents.

Except for the IV7. Most blues players avoid the natural 3rd on the IV7. The b3 of the blues scale is the b7 of the IV7 and it's important for the progression that this isn't made ambiguous by "crushing" it with the natural 3rd.

if you bend that sixth of the scale up to that seventh, you got something very pungent that you sure don't got without it. back and forth, given in F: Eb D>Eb, repeat, torture it for a moment...

this here lick (I hate talking in theory terms about this, now there's pedantry for yez, but I'm in a refutin' sorta way today), given in F:

Ab/D ('IV7')
slide up to
A/Eb ('I7')

is a classic blues move, and is suggested by the move I showed you, above.

Don't count a note out by theory in this music, it's silly. CART BEFORE THE HORSE.

[pinkjimiphoton]

a few key points on blues scales from a former pro's perspective...

in blues, you can indeed play a minor pentatonic over major dominant 7th chords..

the 5 chord is usually ALWAys a V7, regardless of the other chords in the progression.

generally, if you play a major chord as the I , try playing minor pentatonic over that, and when going to the IV, go to a MAJOR pentatonic.

this is a good rule of thumb that often works really well with most more traditional blues progressions, and will get your ear used to hearing which of the two scales is the appropriate one to use over whateve chord.

this polytonality aspect is one of the key aspects of the blues.

make sure to include (when appropriate 6ths and b5's in the scale form you use...

see, say you are in A, the 6 in Aminor would be f....which most likely will clash with the IV7's more typical #6 (f#)....you can play the flatted 6 to increase tension, but odds are the raised 6 will be more melodic. the flat 5 can also be used to increase tension.

let me give an example, to show how easy it actually can be..
again, say you are in "a", and i was teaching you to play bass...
the simplest "walk" is an 8-to-the-bar one...

i would have you start with your middle finger of your left hand on the fifth fret of your E string..that would be your root.
next up would be a major third above, played on your a string with your index finger at the fourth fret, folowed by a perfect fourth on the a string with the middle finger on the fifth, a flatted fifth on the a string with the ring finger at the 7th, and the 5th with your pinky at the 7th fret of your a string...followed by the same progression upwards on the d string (4th, 5th, 6th, 7th frets, or VI, bVII, VII and finally the octave...then back down to the root.
note this is a major progression, for all intents (actually chromatic) ....you could move this same fingering pattern thru the I, IV , and V chords and have a fully walking bassline....but it is in true blues tradition ambiguous enough that it can have major or minor licks played over it.
as a guitarist, it opens you up to a scale form somewhere between the stock major and minor pentatonics, and can be reasonably easily adapted to play over damn near anything.
notice only a few notes of the full chromatic scale are not used...but you can absolutley substitute these notes if you need to to make them fit whatever progression you are playing.

this is, of course, an overly simplified explanation...

the key is that it encompasses elements from both scales.

after playing blues since the early 70's, i'm pretty sure blues is actually chromatic, neither major or minor...but somewhere right in between, as illustrated by the simple ass bass run i described above..


before you know it, you will be fluent enough to go between whichever form seems right..."major" or "minor" tonalities.

blues is one of the few musical forms you can sing minor lines over a major progression while playing fills that are a hybrid of both.

for three chords, 5 notes (and an asshole, to quote keith richards) it is one of the most challenging and expressive musical forms .

have fun, remember there are few rules in the end...

it is all about how YOU feel at the time, so don;t try and rehearse where and what you will solo...that is rehashed bullshit, not blues.
by all means, structure and context is very important...but you cannot rehears how you will feel at a future moment, so don;t try...just live in the "now".

so turn off your mind and just let that shit flow.
hope this helps a little to clarify what i believe you were asking about.
namaste
jimi

ps...when i met Muddy at the shaboo inn in the mid 70's (one of his final tours, with Johnny Winter in tow) and asked him if he thought it rtrue white boys couldn;t play the blues, he smiled and said "Shit man, all you have to be is HUMAN to play the blues"...

so don't let anyone tell you you can;t play the blues if not black, if not thru the chitlin circuit, not jukin' on the "wrong side of the tracks" or any of that shit...

if you let it flow, and close your eyes and stop trying to think about all the bullshit, you will be fine.

blues is indeed a feeling, and every single human on this planet is quite capable if they can learn to bare their soul in the idiom.
and you can take that to the bank.

[Sequoia_user]

The coolest thing for me about the blues is the circuit and all the crazy stories you hear. Its a never ending episode of Dynasty.

[pinkjimiphoton]

=)

dude...you ain't kidding!!
and after a while ya realize just how many of us there are out there, and some of the crazy connections that can be drawn....

[Sequoia_user]

man...dude in the span of just one month..30 days...could write a fekkin novel.

And im not even talking about those with umm..tour bus rules..
names withheld because i just dont need their bad charma infesting me.

But I must make a suggestion to future blues bassists..TREAD LIGHTLY!

you will be either loved or hated..theres no middle ground. You're essentially replacing the old dog house players who had no intonation skills. Or guitar players who switched to bass..thats why many traditional blues bass libnes are "wrong" from a theory standpoint..

and oh man..traditional vs. non-traditional...thats a fekkin line you dont wanna cross!

[Jake Jackson]

On piano it's often common practice to avoid sustaining the major third in the left hand, since the third establishes if the key is major or minor. In other words, people often play the 1 and b7 in the left hand, so the right can play either a blues pentatonic that bends up to or slides off the flatted third, or use the other blues scale of 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7,8. Notice I said sustaining the major third. Walking bass is something else, of course.

More generally, you just adjust your left hand to give yourself whatever backing the right hand wants. Sometimes 1 and b7 work well in the bass, but at other times you'll want to enforce a minor sound so you'll play 1, b7, b3 for a minor 10th sound. For a major sound, the Bud Powell shell voicing (b7, 3)works well.

[chardin]

then you also have ice cream changes.

Never heard of this one. Could you post the chords please?