2 questions about the sound when making music on a PC
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 8 Jun, 2007
Hi guys
Today, with good, cheap sound cards being available, together with transparent headphones and monitors, we can get a very dry, clinical sound which doesn't have any colouration. While it may be good when mixing, I think its quite unpleasant on the longer run when you are making music or doing sound design.
Are there any plugins, methods you would recommend to make the sound more natural ?
Like some EQ, limiter, filter on the master ? Are you using anything like it when you are making music or design sounds ?
My other thought is about virtual instruments. So many of them are made by big and small companies and just hobbyist developers who very often don't have much experience. While physical synths have some specific output frequency range, its possible to create virtual instruments with a very broad output frequency range. Is that one of the reasons that some synths sit well in the mix and others don't ?
What would be a way of dealing it ? (other than not using them at all
Thanks
Today, with good, cheap sound cards being available, together with transparent headphones and monitors, we can get a very dry, clinical sound which doesn't have any colouration. While it may be good when mixing, I think its quite unpleasant on the longer run when you are making music or doing sound design.
Are there any plugins, methods you would recommend to make the sound more natural ?
Like some EQ, limiter, filter on the master ? Are you using anything like it when you are making music or design sounds ?
My other thought is about virtual instruments. So many of them are made by big and small companies and just hobbyist developers who very often don't have much experience. While physical synths have some specific output frequency range, its possible to create virtual instruments with a very broad output frequency range. Is that one of the reasons that some synths sit well in the mix and others don't ?
What would be a way of dealing it ? (other than not using them at all
Thanks
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
If you're using headphones, get a headphone amp with the usual features like a tone (low/high) adjustment and "headphones" filter which reduces the panning width.
If you have a good quality rack amp rather than powered monitors, the amp may include that stuff.
If you're stuck with the usb audio module feeding powered monitors... well sucks then.
You can attempt to apply the same effects with plugins or if you're very lucky they'll be included with the interface, but they're unlikely to be as quick and of the same quality as those you'd find commonplace in good amps.
If you have a good quality rack amp rather than powered monitors, the amp may include that stuff.
If you're stuck with the usb audio module feeding powered monitors... well sucks then.
You can attempt to apply the same effects with plugins or if you're very lucky they'll be included with the interface, but they're unlikely to be as quick and of the same quality as those you'd find commonplace in good amps.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
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- KVRian
- 539 posts since 3 Apr, 2008 from State of Confusion
If I understand the question right, many studios have more than one set of monitors. The main set being flat response for the bulk of the tracking and mixing duties. Then maybe an alternate pair or two for simulating consumer level monitoring (stereo speakers). Many of the big studios have a set of "bigs" for wowing clients.
You might benefit using a set of nice "non-flat" home stereo speakers for song development/jamming/scratchpad use.
Otherwise, the use of the term "natural sounding" in conjunction with the term "virtual instruments" can be confusing. Synth's aren't natural, but orchestral sample libraries can be. This is where the term sound design comes in. Most synth plugs usually require a fair bit of shaping to fit in a mix anyway.
Sorry if I didn't understand your question though.
You might benefit using a set of nice "non-flat" home stereo speakers for song development/jamming/scratchpad use.
Otherwise, the use of the term "natural sounding" in conjunction with the term "virtual instruments" can be confusing. Synth's aren't natural, but orchestral sample libraries can be. This is where the term sound design comes in. Most synth plugs usually require a fair bit of shaping to fit in a mix anyway.
Sorry if I didn't understand your question though.
"All generalizations are false".
"Don't quantize me bro"!
"Don't quantize me bro"!
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Quietinthedark Quietinthedark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=289337
- KVRist
- 181 posts since 5 Oct, 2012
I use a tape or desk sim on almost everything, in a very subtle way. Like get it to where I can hear the effect and back it off 50%.
For virtual instruments, I treat them like real instruments I used to own. I don't like the sound of an organ sim, for example, that isn't run thru an amp sim and at least a tiny bit of natural room reverb.
Similarly, IF i'm going for a natural sound, everything gets an ambient reverb treatment. Even stuff I wish didn't like kicks and basses. And even though I probably have the mix at around 10% where most people wont hear it.
The point is cumulatively, I end up happy. It certainly fools other musicians. I've been asked lots of times which 'studio' we recorded in. And people have flat not believed that stuff is mutlitracked.
For virtual instruments, I treat them like real instruments I used to own. I don't like the sound of an organ sim, for example, that isn't run thru an amp sim and at least a tiny bit of natural room reverb.
Similarly, IF i'm going for a natural sound, everything gets an ambient reverb treatment. Even stuff I wish didn't like kicks and basses. And even though I probably have the mix at around 10% where most people wont hear it.
The point is cumulatively, I end up happy. It certainly fools other musicians. I've been asked lots of times which 'studio' we recorded in. And people have flat not believed that stuff is mutlitracked.
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 8 Jun, 2007
[quote=Otherwise, the use of the term "natural sounding" in conjunction with the term "virtual instruments" can be confusing. Synth's aren't natural, but orchestral sample libraries can be. This is where the term sound design comes in. Most synth plugs usually require a fair bit of shaping to fit in a mix anyway.
Sorry if I didn't understand your question though.[/quote]
Yes, the term 'natural sounding' maybe confusing here. For me, the real analog synth, maybe considered a natural sounding. Apart from the sound of raw oscillators and all the synthesis elements, you can hear all the imperfections and the output stage. While these imperfections maybe simulated in the synth or not, I think that the output part is very often omitted.
I maybe wrong but I can imagine that many VSTi synths (99.9% of synthedit synths?) just output the whole, untamed sound spectrum into the output, without any eq or other form of shaping, which, for example, may result in a lot of low frequency garbage. Maybe it is inaudible at first, but makes mixing such instrument difficult. Something which would be impossible in real world as the output frequency range of physical synths is limited by the output stage electronics.
Sorry if I didn't understand your question though.[/quote]
Yes, the term 'natural sounding' maybe confusing here. For me, the real analog synth, maybe considered a natural sounding. Apart from the sound of raw oscillators and all the synthesis elements, you can hear all the imperfections and the output stage. While these imperfections maybe simulated in the synth or not, I think that the output part is very often omitted.
I maybe wrong but I can imagine that many VSTi synths (99.9% of synthedit synths?) just output the whole, untamed sound spectrum into the output, without any eq or other form of shaping, which, for example, may result in a lot of low frequency garbage. Maybe it is inaudible at first, but makes mixing such instrument difficult. Something which would be impossible in real world as the output frequency range of physical synths is limited by the output stage electronics.
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Quietinthedark Quietinthedark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=289337
- KVRist
- 181 posts since 5 Oct, 2012
Which is one of the reasons to run it through a guitar amp sim, it attenuates the extreme lows and highs that you dont really want anyway. And imho, in a more natural soundign way that a simple low and high pass setup.PHassan wrote: Yes, the term 'natural sounding' maybe confusing here. For me, the real analog synth, maybe considered a natural sounding. Apart from the sound of raw oscillators and all the synthesis elements, you can hear all the imperfections and the output stage. While these imperfections maybe simulated in the synth or not, I think that the output part is very often omitted.
I maybe wrong but I can imagine that many VSTi synths (99.9% of synthedit synths?) just output the whole, untamed sound spectrum into the output, without any eq or other form of shaping, which, for example, may result in a lot of low frequency garbage. Maybe it is inaudible at first, but makes mixing such instrument difficult. Something which would be impossible in real world as the output frequency range of physical synths is limited by the output stage electronics.
- KVRian
- 728 posts since 29 Aug, 2013
Steinberg Magneto...PHassan wrote:Any specific plugin you could recommend ?
• I don't speak English "by default", so...
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- Banned
- 254 posts since 7 Jun, 2008 from On this 1 world!
- ToneBoosters TB FeroxPHassan wrote:Any specific plugin you could recommend ?
- Nomad Factory MAGNETIC I Or II
A very good natual & warm sounding Software Synthesizer:
- GForce Software ImpOSCar2
http://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/imposcar2
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Quietinthedark Quietinthedark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=289337
- KVRist
- 181 posts since 5 Oct, 2012
The toneboosters are great ferox and reelbus
Also often use SDRR from Klanghelm
and for amps, so many nice choices
paid
Amplitude (paid but you can buy specific amps)
Kuassa
S-Gear
free
ignite amps
lepou
Also often use SDRR from Klanghelm
and for amps, so many nice choices
paid
Amplitude (paid but you can buy specific amps)
Kuassa
S-Gear
free
ignite amps
lepou
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- KVRAF
- 1782 posts since 4 Sep, 2011 from England
Slate Digital have accurately simulated analogue 80s studio sound with these plugins.:-
Virtual Console Collection
Virtual Tape Machine
Virtual Bus Compressors
You need ilok 2 to use and demo them but they do give a free ilok 2 when buying their plugins.
A cheaper none ilok alternative is just buy u-he Satin or Wave Arts Tube Saturator.
Virtual Console Collection
Virtual Tape Machine
Virtual Bus Compressors
You need ilok 2 to use and demo them but they do give a free ilok 2 when buying their plugins.
A cheaper none ilok alternative is just buy u-he Satin or Wave Arts Tube Saturator.
- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
Few instruments are natural. Ever seen trumpets or violins growing on trees?martygras wrote: Synth's aren't natural, but orchestral sample libraries can be.
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
If your music isnt up to scratch, it wont matter how analogue or warm it sounds. Concentrate on the quality of composition the rest is decoration.
- KVRAF
- 9216 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from Pequot Lakes, MN
You're wrongPHassan wrote:I maybe wrong but I can imagine that many VSTi synths (99.9% of synthedit synths?) just output the whole, untamed sound spectrum into the output, without any eq or other form of shaping, which, for example, may result in a lot of low frequency garbage. Maybe it is inaudible at first, but makes mixing such instrument difficult. Something which would be impossible in real world as the output frequency range of physical synths is limited by the output stage electronics.
Now that I've said it, let me tell you why you are:
To begin with, your soundcard has a brickwall filter at both the low and high end; you won't find many (if any) soundcards that put out frequencies below 20 Hz and above 22 KHz (input is a different kettle of fish; there you'll find an extended frequency range at the top end). The same holds true with hardware digital/VA synths; in fact, with your older digital synths, they've rolled off sharply at 15KHz or so on the high end. And, your *real* analog synths WILL put out frequencies both above and below the human hearing range of frequencies.
ew
A spectral heretic...
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 8 Jun, 2007
Hehe, I agree, i'm still noob but not SUCH noob. The cards physical output is limited, i'm talking about the synths output frequency inside the daw, still in virtual domain.