Asking hardware synth owners for a favor :)

[fluffy_little_something]

I rarely venture into the hardware forum, but because of a soft synth discussion I would appreciate it if a proud owner of a polyphonic Oberheim, SCI or similar synth would check something for me:

Make a simple init patch (one saw, very long amp envelope release, filter env off, modest cutoff) and play the same note repeatedly in normal polyphonic mode, like every half second or so.

Do the 2nd, 3rd etc. iterations of that note sound the same as the very first or do they display a varying sound character?
In other words, like the first or second half of this audio demo?
https://app.box.com/s/x0jy44qzebbcmm1htyacfj7nc251ebna

Thanks a lot

[fluffy_little_something]

Did another comparison of two soft synths. With the first, pressing the same key repeatedly leads to the "fusion" of the overlapping notes, kind of a phaser effect, whereas with the second synth only the first note has the correct sound, while pressing the same key again and again changes the sound character quite a bit and in a static way.

https://app.box.com/s/d9z56r21isha2rwbqnkqm73yd6vdb27v

Which sounds better and which resembles the behavior of a polyphonic hardware synth? Feel free to compare it to whatever polyphonic hardware synth you have, provided it is a good one

I am asking because I want to know if the way my soft synth does it, is correct so to speak. It sounds wrong and ugly to me with some patches...

[foosnark]

All my hardware synths are monophonic, except the AY3 which has an unuusal poly mode and weird envelopes anyway, so I'm not sure what it would do in this test.

But: isn't this basically the difference between freerunning oscillators (most likely in analog oscillators) and oscillators that start only when played (most likely the case in DSP-based oscillators)? And it's why some softsynths have the option of resetting or randomizing the phase when it starts.

[AnX]

Are your osc free running or synced to gate/note on?

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't think it has to do with the oscillator, the result is the same when I turn retrigger on and off.

[fluffy_little_something]

All my hardware synths are monophonic, except the AY3 which has an unuusal poly mode and weird envelopes anyway, so I'm not sure what it would do in this test.

But: isn't this basically the difference between freerunning oscillators (most likely in analog oscillators) and oscillators that start only when played (most likely the case in DSP-based oscillators)? And it's why some softsynths have the option of resetting or randomizing the phase when it starts.

Since you mention monophonic, in mono mode the sound of the soft synth (which produces those varying sounds in poly mode) is the same every time I hit the same key. Strange...

[Mutant]

There are at least 3 possibilities:
1. 2nd note press on the same key uses a new voice, leaving the previous voice free to complete its full release, which interferes with every next note.
2. It uses the same voice and starts a new note at the Attack level taken from Release level of the previous note, it gives you a pure, static sound.
3. Different sound without notes overlapping results from different phase relations between oscillators on different voices.
All of the above are easy to emulate in software.

If i were you, i would download some demo version of a good emulation of the hardware synths you wanted to check.

[fluffy_little_something]

Well, I am not interested in any particular hardware synth. I assume that due to hardware/cost restraints, different analog hardware synths handle such things in a similar way. For instance, does a 6-voice polyphonic hw synth have spare voices for patches with long release? Probably not because it would be expensive. I am just guessing here, no clue how it all works inside. But I think I remember reading that soft synths have such spare voices for certain situations.

Sure, I could download the SEM again, but who says Arturia programmed it right? That is why I put this in the hardware sub-forum.

[aciddose]

Some synthesizers use recycling, some don't. Most software synthesizers don't which is in my opinion a huge mistake. If you're severely limited in the number of available voices, not providing voice recycling functionality will cut the real polyphony by a huge amount.

For example:

G, B, A, A, A, C, D, D, D

Using voice recycling:

1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5

Six voice polyphonic works fine.

Using without voice recycling:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3

Now the release of G and B are cut, the third voice with the first instance of A likely doesn't matter so much because you still have 4 & 5 carrying additional A notes.

The cut of voices 1 & 2 however matters a lot!

Very noticeable difference.

Xhip uses voice recycling, the alpha version has a switch to disable it.

Certain "polyphonic" synthesizers actually had one voice per key. Examples include organs (additive), or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_PS-3300 (like 144 MS-10s)



Voice recycling mimics the action of something like a fully polyphonic instrument such as a piano, organ or similar.

Allowing overlaps is strange and unique. It carries a significant cost both in terms of added "clicking" (due to sudden note/parameter changes on voice stealing) and reduced polyphony.

RS-09 (basically a miniature desktop organ.)

[recursive one]

Are you only interested in analog synths? Mine is a VA.

[fluffy_little_something]

Are you only interested in analog synths? Mine is a VA.

Fine with me, any good subtractive synth will do

[Stupid American Pig]

I have a jx3p and jx8p can do it tonight.

[recursive one]

Are you only interested in analog synths? Mine is a VA.

Fine with me, any good subtractive synth will do

Virus is usually considered good Will do tomorrow.

[fluffy_little_something]

@aciddose

And how would those 3 consecutive A's sound, especially the second and third iteration? Does voice recycling mean that the voices on the same note are consecutive rather than partially in parallel?
I will download Xhip to see how it sounds there...

Btw, so far I like it best the way it has been implemented in Tal's Noizemaker.

[aciddose]

The virus doesn't recycle, the JX- does.

Saved you the effort.