Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

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DarkStar
KVRAF
8917 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Post Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:50 am

I have read the Info about this parameter but am still a bit confused. ;)

I can understand that each mode calculates a different level for the detector. And, here is a time-graph of the Compressed output (and peak meter levels) for the 8 detector modes, for a fixed input and side chain signal (C3 sinewave)

Image

But I cannot work out when to use each mode. These modes have got me stumped:
Input - SideChain subtracts the levels of individual frequencies in the side-chain from the main input. When used as a compressor, it lets you exclude frequencies present in the side-chain from being compressed. When used as a gate it can do the opposite - by reducing the level of these frequencies it prevents them from exceed the threshold, so it can be seen as one way to solve collisions.

SideChain - Input works the other way around. It can be used to attenuate frequencies present in the side-chain, but not those present in the main input, hence cleaning the input signal.

Multiply multiplies the levels of individual frequencies. This may be the best way to solve collisions, since this operation produces (processes?) frequencies present in both inputs at the same time.
Can someone shed some light on them?

For those three modes: what detector level would be calculated for Input = -12 dB and Sidechain = -18 dB? And for Input = -18 dB and Sidechain = -12 dB?
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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vectorwarrior
KVRian
820 posts since 23 Sep, 2006

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:08 am

Yeah, I'd be curious about this too, having read through the info like you did. I dont use SpecDyn for mixing/ducking purposes so I doubt I'd be using it but I'd be interested regardless.

I didn't see a feature request for this, so I'm guessing this was something that would help out Melda's future tools, but perhaps it was an idea for a specific use case or was something in a tool like Ozone/Neutron/etc that they wanted to implement.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:48 pm

The idea here was to somehow use both signals for processing, mainly for avoiding collisions, but I think it could have many uses. The rest of it was just a playground :D. Try using a filtered noise with some slope, say +6dB/oct for one signal and -6dB/oct for the other, the results should be easy to see there.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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vectorwarrior
KVRian
820 posts since 23 Sep, 2006

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:02 pm

Yeah, i was thinking about this this morning and it got me thinking of some interesting creative uses that I'm going to investigate when i get some time.

Which got me thinking... would this be useful to add to MMorph? As in, multiplication of A and B, etc.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:35 pm

It cannot be applied to MMorph, I'd already add it when I was developing it :D. It works very differently...
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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DarkStar
KVRAF
8917 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:12 am

Playground ? Yes. But if how they work is not clear they are unlikely to be used, other than for experiments.

Anyway, can someone help me out with the "dB-arithmetic"?
For those three modes: what detector level would be calculated for Input = -12 dB and Sidechain = -18 dB? And for Input = -18 dB and Sidechain = -12 dB?
Input - SideChain
-12 - -18 = ? dB
-18 - -12 = ? dB

SideChain - Input
-18 - -12 = ? dB
-12 - -18 = ? dB

Multiply
-12 x -18 = ? dB
-18 x -12 = ? dB
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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vectorwarrior
KVRian
820 posts since 23 Sep, 2006

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:16 am

I would presume it's

Input - SideChain
-12 - -18 = -6dB
-18 - -12 = 6dB

SideChain - Input
-18 - -12 = 6 dB
-12 - -18 = -6 dB

Multiply
Okay, stumped here... I can't imagine it's 12x18, which is what I was expecting, because the value becomes way too small.

DarkStar
KVRAF
8917 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:00 am

^^^
Nah, dB levels aren't linear. After all:
-18dB + -18dB = -12dB
-18dB + -6dB = -4.2dB
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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vectorwarrior
KVRian
820 posts since 23 Sep, 2006

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:36 am

Yeah, i did some testing with signals and realized my estimates were off but couldn't figure out the solution. Your numbers feel right to me, how did you calculate them?

For multiply, the signal is definitely MUCH quieter in the tests I did.

DarkStar
KVRAF
8917 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:17 am

I put MNoiseGenerator on two tracks, using white noise, sent them both to a third track and looked at the meter levels. Alternatively use MOscillator.
Last edited by DarkStar on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

jmg8
KVRAF
1973 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:35 am

It would probably be a lot clearer if you make the two tracks have very different audio. Like Vojtech says, put low slope on one and high slope on the other. It should be easier to see how they interact with each other.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live10/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11090 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:52 pm

jmg8 wrote:It would probably be a lot clearer if you make the two tracks have very different audio. Like Vojtech says, put low slope on one and high slope on the other. It should be easier to see how they interact with each other.
Exactly!

And stop doing math :D. I think, not sure, dB is NOT used there, it is processed in linear domain.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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DarkStar
KVRAF
8917 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: Q: MSpectralDynamics - v1106 Detector Input modes

Post Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:47 am

<< never mind>>
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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