The Big Guitar Amp Sim Roundup + Review

[guitarzan]

… We are in the infancy if what a amp sim as a new tool for electric guitar and bass can become. It's a great technology.
It allows you to just do weird stuff and experiment around easily and quickly in a way that would be much harder, time consuming and expensive if you were doing it in hardware.

We should try to not keep comparing it to that past . It's like going to a modern day IMAX film and dwelling on how much more authentic Charlie Chaplin films were. No one in their right mind would try to compare the two.

If an amp simulator doesn't realistically simulate existing amp behavior, then it isn't an amp simulator at all, right? I don't mean it has to emulate a specific model (that claim actually annoys me), but something called an "amp simulator" should simulate earthy real amp behavior at a minimum — seems self evident to me. It's in the title.

If it is everone's greatest desire to not simulate real amp behavior, then perhaps an effects processor would be a better tool. Maybe that's what most "amp simulators" should be called anyway, since they simulate everything but the "amp" part (power amp, that is).

[Anderton]

If an amp simulator doesn't realistically simulate existing amp behavior, then it isn't an amp simulator at all, right?

Then I guess that if a DAW doesn't realistically simulate a multitrack tape recorder, it isn't a multitrack recorder at all . There is no standards body that decides what gets to be called an amp sim, like standards bodies that decide whether something meets the specification for transfer of digital audio over USB. AFAIC if a company's goal is to simulate an amp, then it's an amp simulator. Whether it meets your particular standard for what an amp simulator should sound like is a topic that is relevant only to you and those who share your same views.

On the other hand, if someone wants the sound of an AC 30 and can't tell the difference between a miked Vox AC 30 amp and a simulated AC 30 amp on their recordings, then they have every right to decide that the amp simulation is successful for what they want an amp simulator to do.

If it is everone's greatest desire to not simulate a real amp, then perhaps an effects processor would be a better tool.

I can't speak for everyone, but my desire has very little to do with equipment. It's to obtain a guitar sound that inspires me, and hopefully, pleases others. I don't care how I get there, what I use, or what it's called. If amp sims didn't exist, I'd use only physical amps. If they didn't exist, I'd use acoustic guitars.

Your choice is simple: Given the current state of the art, use an amp if you want the sound it produces. Use an amp sim if you want the sound it produces. Use both if you want to combine the two.

I also think some companies would disagree that no one has attempted to emulate the behavior of a power amp. I respectfully suggest you start a separate thread on that topic, where all the comments will be germane to the subject you want to discuss. The point of this thread is to compare and contrast what exists, and in the process, try to provide a useful service to guitar players

The debate about amp sim purity is like a debate about whether a Mexican-made is an American-made Strat or not. Of course it isn't. But that doesn't mean the Mexican-made Strat isn't a Strat.

[Anderton]

Thanks great write up in BIAS.

Cool, I spent many hours digging into it. Next up is Axiom. After pointing Blue Cat to this thread, they were kind enough to set me up with the full version.

One thing I can add about Amplitube is the interface for me works better for my workflow. I almost always use my own user presets. In Amplitube , it's much faster and less clicking to get to them. Lauch and one click on the presets button . In GR5 it was a little more convoluted to get.to user presents.

This is a great point, and frankly, the kind of comment I was hoping this thread would elicit. Workflow is important. I'm sure those who almost always use their own presets will find your opinion helpful, so thanks for your contribution.

[guitarzan]

The debate about amp sim purity is like a debate about whether a Mexican-made is an American-made Strat or not. Of course it isn't. But that doesn't mean the Mexican-made Strat isn't a Strat.

I see I've gone way off track with this. My ideal version of an amp sim would not be pure at all, really. I always thought it would be cool if the amp sim would virtually reconfigure itself in a customizable way as you raised the gain or dug in. So whatever kind of clean tone and dynamics you want could morph into whatever crunch, lead, whatever...

But what I am trying to get at is that an important and most expressive and dynamic component really hasn't been simulated well at all, and it is power amp overdrive dynamics and sag (some odd wave-shaping too methinks).

I've contacted the old friend who can best check if any of my Envelope Generator / Wave-Shaping ideas show promise. He is one of the only people I could think of who would understand my odd guitar / synth juxtaposition — actually the guy who's software inspired the idea in the first place, I really had to dig back to remember.

All other ideas welcome. Need to imagine a future to create one. I'll leave it at that for now.

[telecode]

… We are in the infancy if what a amp sim as a new tool for electric guitar and bass can become. It's a great technology.
It allows you to just do weird stuff and experiment around easily and quickly in a way that would be much harder, time consuming and expensive if you were doing it in hardware.

We should try to not keep comparing it to that past . It's like going to a modern day IMAX film and dwelling on how much more authentic Charlie Chaplin films were. No one in their right mind would try to compare the two.

If an amp simulator doesn't realistically simulate existing amp behavior, then it isn't an amp simulator at all, right? I don't mean it has to emulate a specific model (that claim actually annoys me), but something called an "amp simulator" should simulate earthy real amp behavior at a minimum — seems self evident to me. It's in the title.

If it is everone's greatest desire to not simulate real amp behavior, then perhaps an effects processor would be a better tool. Maybe that's what most "amp simulators" should be called anyway, since they simulate everything but the "amp" part (power amp, that is).

Maybe it all come down to the physics of it. You can "simulate" the sound but you also need to be realistic about the expectations. Maybe a good analogy could be a car. There is a big ass difference between racing on XBox Forza Horizon and actually driving in one of those cars in that environment. But it is still a lot of fun to play the game and much cheaper.



I have real amps and I have the VSTs. The sound of the VSTs are coming out of either studio headphones or little dinky 3" and 5" studio monitor speakers. They are no match for those 80 or 100w 12" Celestions (I cant remeber what i put into those amps as its been so long since i used them). can do. The VSTs are handy and lets one achieve those sounds those on recording I would say its about 70 or 80% accurate and there.

My kid is slowly starting to get more into guitars and I assume in a few years I will hand over some of my gear to him if he wants it. He's in for a big ass suprise if he ever decides to play in a garage band and start playing electric guitar through amps. Amps are loud as hell. Just waitin until the neighbors start bitchin and complaining. VSTs let you fool around and record to track what a loud amp "can" do without actually pissing neighbors off.

[guitarzan]

…
Maybe it all come down to the physics of it. You can "simulate" the sound but you also need to be realistic about the expectations. Maybe a good analogy could be a car. There is a big ass difference between racing on XBox Forza Horizon and actually driving in one of those cars in that environment. But it is still a lot of fun to play the game and much cheaper.
…

I understand that there is no simulating "loud" realistically — but the way vintage tweed-style amps are modeled now, where they just will not overdrive the power amp properly, but at best just clip an added gain stage .... it is like they modeled them to have a 3,500 rpm redline at about 50 mph. Like they only modeled the part below their powerband. No fun at all, and very inaccurate.

Time to model the good part, or at least try harder. Someone will eventually (hopefully) , and it will be immediately apparent that it is a major advancement, and not just for vintage type amp models because, while not as upfront, most types of tube amp models would benefit if the power amps were more dynamic. The more the amp type can push the power amp in real life with the master volume turned up, the better that type of model would sound and feel with improved power amp modeling. I am certain it can be done and puzzled at everyone's resistance to the idea of even trying...."No, no...we like our vintage muscle cars to be modeled like golf carts...please don't change a thing!".

Without a little pushback, nothing will ever change — just ever shinier packaging and more of the same.

[audiojunkie]

Thanks great write up in BIAS.

Cool, I spent many hours digging into it. Next up is Axiom. After pointing Blue Cat to this thread, they were kind enough to set me up with the full version.

One thing I can add about Amplitube is the interface for me works better for my workflow. I almost always use my own user presets. In Amplitube , it's much faster and less clicking to get to them. Lauch and one click on the presets button . In GR5 it was a little more convoluted to get.to user presents.

This is a great point, and frankly, the kind of comment I was hoping this thread would elicit. Workflow is important. I'm sure those who almost always use their own presets will find your opinion helpful, so thanks for your contribution.

Yay! Thanks Craig for being willing to do an Axiom write-up! And thanks to Blue Cat Audio for being willing to give Craig a copy! Please be sure to be honest about your feelings about it whether good or bad, because this is the one that I've been seriously looking at buying, and I want to know the truth about the bad things as well as the good things!

[audiojunkie]

Telecode said:

Amps are loud as hell. Just waitin until the neighbors start bitchin and complaining. VSTs let you fool around and record to track what a loud amp "can" do without actually pissing neighbors off.

This is one of the biggest reasons I'm using amp sims. Another one is variety of sounds and effects for the price. I miss my Gibson Goldtone, but I don't miss having family members yelling at me and disrupting my practice time.

[Anderton]

Please be sure to be honest about your feelings about it whether good or bad, because this is the one that I've been seriously looking at buying, and I want to know the truth about the bad things as well as the good things!

I'll certainly tell you what I think, but ultimately, what I think doesn't matter - it's so subjective! Fortunately, a demo version is available, so you can audition it for yourself. And then you can tell us what you think about it!

It's not your "normal" amp sim, so that probably means some people will love it and some people won't

[Anderton]

This fixation on the power amp behavior reminds of when the synth was invented, and some people complained about how it didn't really sound like a piano, or French horn, or whatever. They continued their quest to mimic existing acoustic instruments, and got into samplers. But even with today's state of the art, trying to mimic truly complex physical phenomenon in a virtual world is a non-starter. I'll believe otherwise the day someone uses a synth or sampler to play a sax solo that sounds like John Coltrane.

However, other people went down the path of using these tools in new ways, and we ended up with Kraftwerk, electronic dance music, incredible movie soundtracks (e.g., Clockwork Orange), hip-hop, etc. Whether you like those genres or not, their cultural impact and acceptance speaks for itself.

The TR-808 was a commercial flop when people expected it to sound like drums. When it was used for what it did best, it took off like a rocket.

I was never very interested in having synths sound like pianos, so at least I'm consistent

[Tj Shredder]

Most people who complain about differences to the “real” thing, complain that it does not have the flaws... At the time those tools and instruments had been invented, the creators would have sold their soul to get rid of those flaws...
Of course those flaws have their own beauty as well, but its easy to create artificial flaws with beauty, just not the same. And there is no need to either, the original flawed hardware can still be built and used...
Invent new flaws and miraculously you could develop a unique personal sound instead of a bad copy of already known sounds...

[guitarzan]

However, other people went down the path of using these tools in new ways, and we ended up with Kraftwerk, electronic dance music, incredible movie soundtracks (e.g., Clockwork Orange), hip-hop, etc. Whether you like those genres or not, their cultural impact and acceptance speaks for itself.

And I say adapting synth tech to mimic amp behavior IS using these tools in new ways. I guess I'm done arguing, I'm doing something about it now. FTW

[telecode]

Telecode said:

Amps are loud as hell. Just waitin until the neighbors start bitchin and complaining. VSTs let you fool around and record to track what a loud amp "can" do without actually pissing neighbors off.

This is one of the biggest reasons I'm using amp sims. Another one is variety of sounds and effects for the price. I miss my Gibson Goldtone, but I don't miss having family members yelling at me and disrupting my practice time.

i am on another forum where we discuss our audiophilia where Stevie Ray Vaughn came up. (For anyone who missed. It has been 30 years since he died). I saw him in the late 80s and i remember 2 things. 1) he was a great player and 2) fauk he was loud! one of the loudest concerts in my life.

Same goes for Jeff Beck. I saw him with Santana and same thing. Beck was loud as hell in a live stadium. Santana was normal. Just did his regular Santana music and stuff. I guess its more a reference to live sound mixing for guitar centric artists. They like their guitars loud!

[Anderton]

And I say adapting synth tech to mimic amp behavior IS using these tools in new ways.

I get that, but I'm not arguing with whether what you want is valuable or not. I'll never turn down an improvement when/if it arrives. I just want this thread to be about what we can do today, not what we may be able to do tomorrow. Until what you want exists, there's no way we can discuss in a practical way how to use that feature in our music, or compare amp sims that have it vs. those that don't (assuming you're correct that no manufacturer has attempted to model power amp behavior the way you would like to see it modeled).

It's all good, I just question whether it's appropriate for what this thread is trying to do - compare and contrast existing amp sims.

[guitarzan]

And I say adapting synth tech to mimic amp behavior IS using these tools in new ways.

I get that, but I'm not arguing with whether what you want is valuable or not. I'll never turn down an improvement when/if it arrives. I just want this thread to be about what we can do today, not what we may be able to do tomorrow. Until what you want exists, there's no way we can discuss in a practical way how to use that feature in our music, or compare amp sims that have it vs. those that don't (assuming you're correct that no manufacturer has attempted to model power amp behavior the way you would like to see it modeled).

It's all good, I just question whether it's appropriate for what this thread is trying to do - compare and contrast existing amp sims.

I suppose you're right, except it's more accurate to say it is something we could do 15 years ago that we still can't do today.