Not sounding the same

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:10 pm

Hi there!
Im a new user of ANA2 and am using it to try and educate myself on sound design from scratch. Been producing for a while but starting to want to learn actually making sounds myself. Anyway, my question..... This youtube video shows someone producing a pad apparently from scratch on ANA2. I have followed the settings exactly as shown on the video - osc 1 and filter/amp and delay etc using same chords and all same settings. Now, mine sounds nowhere near as good as is on the youtube video.... my version is less warm and sounds just much more thinner and grittier. My version sounds far less 'produced' if that makes sense. Why is this? To my mind if I follow the precise setting it should sound the same no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmRY1XT9lg

Anyway im new to the forum and look forward to getting involved.

KVRAF
3399 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:13 pm

Could you post audio of what you got?
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KVRist
374 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm

The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
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KVRist

Topic Starter

81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:49 pm

JerGoertz wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:13 pm
Could you post audio of what you got?
Will try - need to dowload something to do that I guess will try and do tonight or tomorrow
thanks

KVRist

Topic Starter

81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm

BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!

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KVRAF
6631 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm

Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm
BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!
Search the 'Products' section for plugins her on KVR. You will find something for shure. For reverbs i would recommend starting with free ones first. TAL Reverb 2, 3 and 4 is great and free!
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KVRist

Topic Starter

81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm

Halonmusic wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm
BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!
Search the 'Products' section for plugins her on KVR. You will find something for shure. For reverbs i would recommend starting with free ones first. TAL Reverb 2, 3 and 4 is great and free!
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it

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KVRist
374 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:06 am

Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
[...]
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it
A decent producer won't be able to reproduce it 100% with free plugins because for that the software would have to use the same algorithm. But I think it should be possible to get close.

From what I have heard in the video I would assume that the reverb has the following characteristics:
  • A long reverb tail, i.e. if you feed a very short sound into the reverb it will takes a long time for the reverberated sound to disappear.
  • A big room, i.e. it takes a while until the reverberated sound comes back to the listener.
  • High diffusion, i.e. it's hard to locate the sound source.
  • Perhaps some modulation.
It's also important to find the right mix between the original sound and the reverb.

Another free reverb that's considered to be good is OrilRiver by the way:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/orilri ... ov/details
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KVRist
374 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:19 am

Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
[...]of an expensive unit like valhhala[...]
I know that it's all relative to how much money you have available but the Valhalla reverbs are not considered to be expensive, especially if you consider what you get for the money and if you compare them to the prices of other commercial reverb plugins. Although I have to admit that I am also still using free plugins. :wink:

Another rather inexpensive commercial reverb is Reverb v4 by ToneBoosters:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/tb-rev ... rs/details

If I ever decided to buy my first reverb plugin I think it would be either this one or Valhalla Room.

I have added the free options that have been mentioned so far to the sidebar of this topic.
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KVRAF
16257 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:34 am

Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm
BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!
Search the 'Products' section for plugins her on KVR. You will find something for shure. For reverbs i would recommend starting with free ones first. TAL Reverb 2, 3 and 4 is great and free!
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it
It’s worth noting that, relatively speaking (and when considering their quality), Valhalla’s plugins are cheap. I still love VSP Vintage despite having another reverb which is sold at four times the price.

It’s also worth pointing out that most reverbs have the flexibility to emulate most kinds of spaces, even though they might not be able to recreate 100% facsimiles of a specific sound. Logic Pro comes with two excellent reverbs (Space Designer and Chromaverb), and if you learn how to use them you can get excellent results. Both offer great natural spaces, and SD also has a lot of experimental types of convolutions. Despite owning 3rd-party alternatives, I will often look to Logic’s offerings, as I love the workflow, especially the included eq’s which offer greater flexibility in placing the ‘verb in a mix.

I would suggest learning to use what you have, and then when you stumble upon something that is lacking you know which areas you’d be looking to improve with a 3rd-party reverb :tu:

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KVRAF
16257 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:45 am

BlitBit wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:19 am
Another rather inexpensive commercial reverb is Reverb v4 by ToneBoosters:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/tb-rev ... rs/details

If I ever decided to buy my first reverb plugin I think it would be either this one or Valhalla Room.
I originally bought Valhalla Room at a time when Logic Pro was lacking a top-notch algorithmic reverb. Once Logic added Chromaverb, I ended up selling Room :shrug:

To improve on the reverbs the op already has would take quite an investment, which would only be advised when he/she actually knows how to use them :tu:

KVRist

Topic Starter

81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:58 am

BlitBit wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:06 am
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
[...]
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it
A decent producer won't be able to reproduce it 100% with free plugins because for that the software would have to use the same algorithm. But I think it should be possible to get close.

From what I have heard in the video I would assume that the reverb has the following characteristics:
  • A long reverb tail, i.e. if you feed a very short sound into the reverb it will takes a long time for the reverberated sound to disappear.
  • A big room, i.e. it takes a while until the reverberated sound comes back to the listener.
  • High diffusion, i.e. it's hard to locate the sound source.
  • Perhaps some modulation.
It's also important to find the right mix between the original sound and the reverb.

Another free reverb that's considered to be good is OrilRiver by the way:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/orilri ... ov/details
Perfect thanks so much for the advice. To be honest I have never given reverb too much thought. Used to play alot of guitar and always disliked the effect for what i was playing but now with EDM production im really starting to realise its importance in the actual sound design itself. Will be giving those settings a try.

KVRist

Topic Starter

81 posts since 28 Sep, 2019

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:02 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:34 am
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm
BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!
Search the 'Products' section for plugins her on KVR. You will find something for shure. For reverbs i would recommend starting with free ones first. TAL Reverb 2, 3 and 4 is great and free!
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it
It’s worth noting that, relatively speaking (and when considering their quality), Valhalla’s plugins are cheap. I still love VSP Vintage despite having another reverb which is sold at four times the price.

It’s also worth pointing out that most reverbs have the flexibility to emulate most kinds of spaces, even though they might not be able to recreate 100% facsimiles of a specific sound. Logic Pro comes with two excellent reverbs (Space Designer and Chromaverb), and if you learn how to use them you can get excellent results. Both offer great natural spaces, and SD also has a lot of experimental types of convolutions. Despite owning 3rd-party alternatives, I will often look to Logic’s offerings, as I love the workflow, especially the included eq’s which offer greater flexibility in placing the ‘verb in a mix.

I would suggest learning to use what you have, and then when you stumble upon something that is lacking you know which areas you’d be looking to improve with a 3rd-party reverb :tu:
Thanks will do. interestingly my logic doesnt have chromaverb in the reverb section of audio fx or the legacy drop downs? I have logic pro x 10.2.0

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KVRAF
16257 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:18 am

Bob Slydell wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:02 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:34 am
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm
Bob Slydell wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:52 pm
BlitBit wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 pm
The sound that you hear in the video is not pure ANA2. At around 3:45 you can see that they have an instance of Valhalla Room (reverb) on the channel:
https://youtu.be/7qmRY1XT9lg?t=225
It's active right from the start and contributes a lot to that "washed out", dreamy sound. I guess that's why your not getting into the same ballpark.
Ah ok!!!! That must be it then. That must be a great reverb because it is making a sound that i would consider unusable into a great sounding one. May be worth a download I have not heard of it before. So many VST and plugins out there - difficult to know wht to look for!
Search the 'Products' section for plugins her on KVR. You will find something for shure. For reverbs i would recommend starting with free ones first. TAL Reverb 2, 3 and 4 is great and free!
great will take a look thanks. Ive always used the inbuilt fx in logic pro - but i must say the end result in that youtube video i can not achieve with those. I guess that is down to me rather that the unit used. I find it quite interesting actually - could a decent producer completely replicate the FX of an expensive unit like valhhala using free plug in.... I definately need to learn alot more about FX like reverb - so much to it
It’s worth noting that, relatively speaking (and when considering their quality), Valhalla’s plugins are cheap. I still love VSP Vintage despite having another reverb which is sold at four times the price.

It’s also worth pointing out that most reverbs have the flexibility to emulate most kinds of spaces, even though they might not be able to recreate 100% facsimiles of a specific sound. Logic Pro comes with two excellent reverbs (Space Designer and Chromaverb), and if you learn how to use them you can get excellent results. Both offer great natural spaces, and SD also has a lot of experimental types of convolutions. Despite owning 3rd-party alternatives, I will often look to Logic’s offerings, as I love the workflow, especially the included eq’s which offer greater flexibility in placing the ‘verb in a mix.

I would suggest learning to use what you have, and then when you stumble upon something that is lacking you know which areas you’d be looking to improve with a 3rd-party reverb :tu:
Thanks will do. interestingly my logic doesnt have chromaverb in the reverb section of audio fx or the legacy drop downs? I have logic pro x 10.2.0
Yeah! It was released with version 10.4. Just go to the appstore to download the update :tu:

KVRAF
6016 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:04 am

I think it's much better to start off the preset without any effects and then add them later on in the process of creating it. With a big reverb and/or delay you can't hear as much of the details in the sound you are making.

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