IK goes AI

[machinesworking]

So whether I'm playing a '50s Fender or a '70s Marshall model, I want it to be 100% accurate AND 100% tweakable so I can dial in MY OWN tone, not just be limited to calling up a preset of someone else's tone.

AmpliTube 5 gives us lots of gear that's fully tweakable, while TONEX promises to deliver lots of tones that are fully accurate. But what we need is models that do both.

I think it's cool that soon we'll be able to capture really accurate snapshots of our own gear, but that's only the tip of the iceberg of what machine learning can do. I'm just hoping that IK doesn't stop there with TONEX, because the old AmpliTube models are not going to be able to stand up against the AI Tone Models when it comes to realism.

I think the issue here is what AI can do vs what an amp will do. They seem to give 5-10 settings on an amp if you look at the "amps VS tones" in the listed versions, and your point is good, but what exactly happens when AI decides the in between stages of an EQ? I mean how accurate will it be if it's under the various kinds of distortion and simulated cabinets/reverb etc. (which is 100% what this is all about from what I can tell) that can really change with just a minor tweak? IMO a good solution would be to do exactly what you want, but literally let people know on every dial where the original captures are, that would be cool.

Mostly a list of cabinets would be great, and if you're modeling even a Ratt it's going to take 100 tones on it's own at least. Seriously.

[SLiC]

So when it's stated 40 Amps etc. are included, which ones? this matters, and I see no list. I'm willing to pay more for Marshalls, Silvertone, Fenders etc. I would like to see a list of included amps, not much to ask.

I posted this earlier in the thread, is this what you mean?

https://download.ikmultimedia.com/html/ ... Models.pdf

[machinesworking]

Amplitube with all it's warts is still my favorite IK product, so I'm probably going to fall for this again and rebuy IK's latest take on Amp modeling. (yes I know it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to put something like this out, but I've loyally bought Amplitube and only the Max people? really?)

I might just go for the Tonex Capture. I've got a few seriously damaged ideas to roll out here. I'm probably going to be disappointed, (not IK's fault in this case), because I immediately jump to the more chaotic 'tones', I own a broken Silvertone that will run for a couple more hours before the transformer coils die, and this box, which sounds so close to an amp dying I got pretty scared the first time I plug it though speakers!

[jamcat]

I think the issue here is what AI can do vs what an amp will do. They seem to give 5-10 settings on an amp if you look at the "amps VS tones" in the listed versions, and your point is good, but what exactly happens when AI decides the in between stages of an EQ? I mean how accurate will it be if it's under the various kinds of distortion and simulated cabinets/reverb etc. (which is 100% what this is all about from what I can tell) that can really change with just a minor tweak? IMO a good solution would be to do exactly what you want, but literally let people know on every dial where the original captures are, that would be cool.

Well, IK would just need to employ multivariate regression and expand the training data set to many different settings, rather than just one.

[machinesworking]

So when it's stated 40 Amps etc. are included, which ones? this matters, and I see no list. I'm willing to pay more for Marshalls, Silvertone, Fenders etc. I would like to see a list of included amps, not much to ask.

I posted this earlier in the thread, is this what you mean?

https://download.ikmultimedia.com/html/ ... Models.pdf

Thanks! Nice, and disappointing, doing a quick search for the Marshall Major comes back zilch, and the Sears Silvertone cab is used, but not the amp?? what? Marshalls are spread throughout all price points, so if you want all professionally sampled Marshalls you have to go Max. I would be so much more into it if they had various models that you bought. I don't care for all amp models only a few that I like for guitar, I think most of use are like that.

IMO a lot of my enjoyment of this is depending on how well the end user captures end up sounding, and if the AI doesn't crap it's pants when confronted with seriously damaged sounding amps. I could see really getting into this if I can take things like the F-1, a seriously unstable "distortion" unit and dial in something I like that pops up exactly the same every time.

[machinesworking]

Well, IK would just need to employ multivariate regression and expand the training data set to many different settings, rather than just one.

Beyond the cleaner distortions though, things get really hairy with tubes, AI can only do so much. What would or could pull it off though is a trained to circuit model AI, so it's not just linearly modeling transitions between distortions, but acknowledging the breakups that happen to a 12" speaker with a 50 watt tube amp at 80% up volume wise etc.

[machinesworking]

Another thought, the skins have dials on them, are we looking at a facade here? is there any attempt at sculpting a tone included in the plug in? or do you have to add it into Amplitube for that?

[SLiC]

So when it's stated 40 Amps etc. are included, which ones? this matters, and I see no list. I'm willing to pay more for Marshalls, Silvertone, Fenders etc. I would like to see a list of included amps, not much to ask.

I posted this earlier in the thread, is this what you mean?

https://download.ikmultimedia.com/html/ ... Models.pdf

Thanks! Nice, and disappointing, doing a quick search for the Marshall Major comes back zilch, and the Sears Silvertone cab is used, but not the amp?? what? Marshalls are spread throughout all price points, so if you want all professionally sampled Marshalls you have to go Max. I would be so much more into it if they had various models that you bought. I don't care for all amp models only a few that I like for guitar, I think most of use are like that.

IMO a lot of my enjoyment of this is depending on how well the end user captures end up sounding, and if the AI doesn't crap it's pants when confronted with seriously damaged sounding amps. I could see really getting into this if I can take things like the F-1, a seriously unstable "distortion" unit and dial in something I like that pops up exactly the same every time.

Yes, I have held of pre-ordering for now to see if its worth paying the extra for the MAX version (I'll see how good the CS models sound and the general feedback), I was about to pull the trigger but you can't use the $50 off for owning A5 MAX and JamPoints (one or the other) so its not quite as much as a no brainer, but its still pretty fair even just with Jam Points for the time they have spent capturing all that stuff...assuming it plays well and sounds good (just need the demo version to find out!)

[Uncle E]

So whether I'm playing a '50s Fender or a '70s Marshall model, I want it to be 100% accurate AND 100% tweakable so I can dial in MY OWN tone, not just be limited to calling up a preset of someone else's tone.

All respect for your opinion and way of working but do you really tweak your amp that much? I find when using real amps that I have a few different sounds I get from each amp and the only tweaking I do is to adjust them to fit different guitars.

[jamcat]

So whether I'm playing a '50s Fender or a '70s Marshall model, I want it to be 100% accurate AND 100% tweakable so I can dial in MY OWN tone, not just be limited to calling up a preset of someone else's tone.

All respect for your opinion and way of working but do you really tweak your amp that much? I find when using real amps that I have a few different sounds I get from each amp and the only tweaking I do is to adjust them to fit different guitars.

There is tweaking from song to song, particularly gain and presence, but putting that aside, my base tone isn’t necessarily someone else’s tone. And that’s really the first issue.

Plus, while I’m sure there could be a Tone Model that fits what I’m looking for, it’s going to be quite difficult to find it among thousands of Tone Models. You need to hear YOUR guitar part in YOUR mix before you know if it will work. That’s a lot of trial and error. And that’s the second issue.

What’s dead easy is to load up a model of the amp I want to use, and then tweak the knobs and mics until I get the tone that fits the song and the mix.

It’s akin to perusing a loop library someone else made, looking for the perfect riff for your song vs. just writing it yourself.

[firepile]

Quick question. The preorder is cool and all but jamcat mentions that he thinks each tone model is pretty static, which is kinda backed up by the fact the pedals are all preamps and distortion units, nary a Wha, Flanger, delay or chorus in sight. Plus the whole "40 amps, 20n pedals, 400 tones" states it without stating it.

So when it's stated 40 Amps etc. are included, which ones? this matters, and I see no list.

https://download.ikmultimedia.com/html/ ... Models.pdf

[tappert]

This pdf is not easy to read as it lists presets instead of amps. It would be easier to write the amps and stomps directly at ToneX page.

I'm still puzzled about this product as I don't plan to capture my own rig. My main amp is the Hiwatt (one of those "abandoned" models in AT5 like Jamcat said) and I don't want to spend so much for just an amp especially when many profiles may be necessary to get the job done (1 clean, 1 breakup, 1 cranked, 1 clean + pedal X...)

@Peter, do you know how much additional profiles from custom shop would cost?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I find when using real amps that I have a few different sounds I get from each amp and the only tweaking I do is to adjust them to fit different guitars.

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and only just recently realized that; and only after I started getting some really good tube amps. The only amp I ever really turn the dials a lot on is the Tweed Deluxe clone I have just because that's a special beast and has a lot of weird settings and multiple sweet spots all over the map. Everything else has 1 or 2 basic settings that just get tweaked based on the guitar and room.

I think I just got used to constantly tweaking amp sims to make them work versus really getting to know how good amps work in the real world.

That said, I do wish IK was doing more of a Neural thing with more complete models of amps like Jamcat is suggesting, but I've been using rig profiles with Overloud stuff and I find them to sound generally excellent and not needing a whole lot of tweaking.

[SLiC]

So whether I'm playing a '50s Fender or a '70s Marshall model, I want it to be 100% accurate AND 100% tweakable so I can dial in MY OWN tone, not just be limited to calling up a preset of someone else's tone.

All respect for your opinion and way of working but do you really tweak your amp that much? I find when using real amps that I have a few different sounds I get from each amp and the only tweaking I do is to adjust them to fit different guitars.

That so true, I have a Blues Jn IV with a MXR Univibe and Carbon Copy (via a Fender bends compressor) and I don't think I have touched any dials for 6 months, I have my sound and look forward to being able to capture it so I can use it ITB.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Another thought, the skins have dials on them, are we looking at a facade here? is there any attempt at sculpting a tone included in the plug in? or do you have to add it into Amplitube for that?

Those are cosmetic skins that contain a subset of the range of controls you will have for any Tone Model using the TONEX Player or AmpliTube 5. You'll see in some of the screenshots that there is a noise gate, compressor, EQ, Presence, gain, and reverb (I may have missed something) for every Tone Model.