Mixing (Bass?) with headphones?

[Caine123]

hi guys, im using the Beyer Dynamics DT990 Pro which i really like. i recently watched a nice video where someone stated that he can mix with headphones the bass the best, of course with some higher end headphones. im wondering whats your opinion?

do you have some specific mixing process where you definitely prefer headphones?

so far i use headphones mostly as a side step to check my mixing + definitely the stereo positioning. if my mix has too much bass i already (mostly) hear it with my studio monitors + sub.

[lfm]

When mixing on monitors what I did on phones I usually have to adjust a few things
- some panning
- some sends to reverbs, usually have to increase a bit

With bleed that occur between channels it's a bit different with speakers.

About bass I have nothing special to say other than don't pan it. Lower frequencies has very little directional content for ears/brain.

[Spin Boyz]

Mixing bass on anything is a challenge. For me the trick is getting the balance between the kick and bass right. I’ll hit the mono button in Reaper and solo the kick and bass. I’ll mix the two until it’s right. Then I’ll add some parallel compression and eq to the bass.

[razzkazz]

I treat headphones like another set of speakers, they give another perspective. You can mix mostly on headphones, if you really know them, but advisable to check on a set of decent monitors, just to double-check and the end user will also be listening on both headphones and speakers.

[legendCNCD]

Struggled with bass before I got VSX. Nowadays its quite a lot easier. Recommended.

[_al_]

I Prefer mixing bass through headphones for sure (Techno, Darkpsy etc)
I find that often I will add a plugin that changes the phase slightly, and it is immediately noticeable through headphones, while through speakers, it is a LOT more subtle, and actually unnoticeable most of the time.

I route my kick and bass to a bass buss, and every time I add or bypass a plugin on my bass channel, the tonal change is impossible to miss through headphones, but through speakers... sometimes I can make a lot of changes, thinking it still sounds ok, but as soon as I put my headphones back on, the original pulsing vibe has been changed in an unpleasant way.

I don't have a well treated room, but it's something I have noticed on multiple different setups in different locations, so I don't think I would ever rely solely on speakers ever again (considering the fact that so many people listen on headphones now)

Also... I think if your room is not properly treated, then relying on speakers for mixing sub is a very bad idea.
All rooms have natural resonances at specific frequencies.
My room has a 6db+ peak at 90hz
I've fixed that now, but still, I will make sure it sounds good on both speakers and headphones, as using only speakers would do more harm than good imo.

You should check out something like Realphones or Morphit (both good and cheap(ish) options)
I've been using Realphones for years now, and I really would not like to mix without it. Ever.

[stacygaudreau]

I Prefer mixing bass through headphones for sure (Techno, Darkpsy etc)
I find that often I will add a plugin that changes the phase slightly, and it is immediately noticeable through headphones, while through speakers, it is a LOT more subtle, and actually unnoticeable most of the time.

I route my kick and bass to a bass buss, and every time I add or bypass a plugin on my bass channel, the tonal change is impossible to miss through headphones, but through speakers... sometimes I can make a lot of changes, thinking it still sounds ok, but as soon as I put my headphones back on, the original pulsing vibe has been changed in an unpleasant way.

I don't have a well treated room, but it's something I have noticed on multiple different setups in different locations, so I don't think I would ever rely solely on speakers ever again (considering the fact that so many people listen on headphones now)

Also... I think if your room is not properly treated, then relying on speakers for mixing sub is a very bad idea.
All rooms have natural resonances at specific frequencies.
My room has a 6db+ peak at 90hz
I've fixed that now, but still, I will make sure it sounds good on both speakers and headphones, as using only speakers would do more harm than good imo.

You should check out something like Realphones or Morphit (both good and cheap(ish) options)
I've been using Realphones for years now, and I really would not like to mix without it. Ever.

For sure. Headphones are your best option for mixing bass on if your room is small, and not pristinely well treated for bass.

You can't hear or fix phasing and other issues down low (eg: below 100Hz) if you can't hear what's going on down there properly. Most home studios -- rooms less than ~22ft in both dimensions -- have nowhere near enough absorption in them to sound clear that low.

[osiris]

I have two pairs and bass sounds different on both. Best advice I ever got was to bounce it, put it on a USB and play it in the car (assuming you have a decent sound system in your car)

[Daimonicon]

Use a headphone plugin and no matter if you use headphone or monitors, use a reference track.

[Daimonicon]

I Prefer mixing bass through headphones for sure (Techno, Darkpsy etc)
I find that often I will add a plugin that changes the phase slightly, and it is immediately noticeable through headphones, while through speakers, it is a LOT more subtle, and actually unnoticeable most of the time.

I route my kick and bass to a bass buss, and every time I add or bypass a plugin on my bass channel, the tonal change is impossible to miss through headphones, but through speakers... sometimes I can make a lot of changes, thinking it still sounds ok, but as soon as I put my headphones back on, the original pulsing vibe has been changed in an unpleasant way.

I don't have a well treated room, but it's something I have noticed on multiple different setups in different locations, so I don't think I would ever rely solely on speakers ever again (considering the fact that so many people listen on headphones now)

Also... I think if your room is not properly treated, then relying on speakers for mixing sub is a very bad idea.
All rooms have natural resonances at specific frequencies.
My room has a 6db+ peak at 90hz
I've fixed that now, but still, I will make sure it sounds good on both speakers and headphones, as using only speakers would do more harm than good imo.

You should check out something like Realphones or Morphit (both good and cheap(ish) options)
I've been using Realphones for years now, and I really would not like to mix without it. Ever.

For sure. Headphones are your best option for mixing bass on if your room is small, and not pristinely well treated for bass.

You can't hear or fix phasing and other issues down low (eg: below 100Hz) if you can't hear what's going on down there properly. Most home studios -- rooms less than ~22ft in both dimensions -- have nowhere near enough absorption in them to sound clear that low.

There are some pro producers/mixing engineers who mix in untreated room. It’s more important to know your room and their mixes are top notch. Don’t mix in a untreated room, don’t mix in headphones. Still some ignore all the don’ts and prove it is possible.

[Daimonicon]

Double post

[Daimonicon]

..

[Benedict]

My opinion is that when I listen to most mixes made by people in headphones, they sound like mixes made by people in headphones - ie people who can't hear properly, or more accurately have not yet learned how music should feel because they are trapped in the obsessive culture of pedantic technicality.

This means that people who feel the Scene & Story of the Song and how it is happening can, in theory, mix anywhere on anything with workable results. The obsession with wall-padding and software that alters what we hear is so silly as it is solving the wrong problem, making the real problem worse - which is of course good for the bank balance of said companies

I use cans for, well absolutely nothing when mixing. I only use cans for isolation when screecasting. You can hear the difference when I headphone-mix the same song I already mixed on speakers.
https://youtu.be/sJFDaWcvCiY?si=VUCm17vV-C9jxv7h&t=5710
The headphone mix is a bit of a mess and definitely lacks clarity and detail. Depth goes. Some is from working fast whilst speaking, some is from unfamiliar tools, but mostly this lack is from the lack of air between speaker and ear which is how sound really propagates.

While there seems to be logic in saying "oh but all my fanz is in da canz so I mixing in da canz to match em" it is flawed. If this really played out so literally, in the 70s everyone would have mixed on this:

Instead, the BBC invested in nice speakers. Big studios reinforced their wall to glue up Tannoy Big Reds. What did happen was that to be sure that translation worked, small speakers like Horrortones (Auratones) were popped on the desk. A studio I was in where most of the work was for TV, a piezo similar to a laptop was used to check for 12" TVs. This is the space that the NS10 grew into as it managed to bridge all those options in one wonderfully imperfect box. Hence if you can make it vibe on an NS10 it will work anywhere.

Bass is hard but often people are thinking of only Sub Bass and Air, as if by getting the extremes perfect (remember technical pedantry) the whole mix will magically work. This is the complete opposite of why Horrortones and NS10s were so powerful. Mix the Midrange and the extremes will sort themselves.

[joshsolomon_]

I mix all my music in headphones.
Although the catch is they are a GOOD pair of headphones - Audeze LCD-X.
I have found my mixes to be alot better then any speaker setup I used.

[_al_]

My opinion is that when I listen to most mixes made by people in headphones, they sound like mixes made by people in headphones - ie people who can't hear properly

I don't doubt it. Using headphones only, often gives a warped sense of perspective when it comes to overall dynamics. But it's a perspective that's shared by other headphone users, so it would silly to ignore that.
In my experience, when I've mixed dance music using only speakers, I'm often left with something that sounds a bit cold and sterile when played back through headphones. (best way I can explain it)
That's why imo we need to use both speakers and headphones to find some common ground.

But with that said, the original poster was asking about mixing bass.

Bass is hard but often people are thinking of only Sub Bass and Air, as if by getting the extremes perfect (remember technical pedantry) the whole mix will magically work. This is the complete opposite of why Horrortones and NS10s were so powerful. Mix the Midrange and the extremes will sort themselves.

If you usually mix rock or pop or something, then maybe that's why the sub doesn't seem so important to you?
But I think you will have Psytrance producers reading this paragraph with a look of horror on their face

If my room was treated to studio standards, then yeah, I would feel comfortable mixing mainly on speakers, but for sure I would be regularly checking on headphones, for reasons I mentioned in my first post.