Noobish qn: "Create multi-out wrapper" vs. "Create multi-out wrapper in submix"

[Ally007]

Hello all. Forgive me if I seem dense, but I am not too familiar with the use of wrappers and submixes, concerning instrument plugins. I think I know what wrappers and submixes are, but maybe I'm not all that clear, as I haven't used either, in the past.

Here is what I'm not clear about: Let's say you want to load a drum plugin (such as MT Power Drum Kit 2) into a new track. TW12 throws up three options:
Option 1: Add single plugin
Option 2: Create multi-out wrapper
Option 3: Create multi-out wrapper in submix.

If you choose Option 1, you end up with a single track, into which all the percussion instruments are loaded, correct?

And if you select Option 2, you end up with a separate track for each percussion instrument. Is this corrrect?

And if you select Option 3, I'm guessing you end up with a separate track for each percussion instrument, PLUS a submix track, which simply allows you to control the volumes etc, of all the individual percussion instrument tracks as if they were all a single track. Have I guessed correctly?

One more thing: If you select Option 2, and later decide you need a submix track for the percussion instruments, can you add one later, as can be done in Reaper, for example?

Many thanks for any clarification.

[nowgad]

Hello! No. Option 3 is option 2 packed with Submix. This is 1 track which contains many tracks. Try it and you will see everything

[Ally007]

Hello! No. Option 3 is option 2 packed with Submix. This is 1 track which contains many tracks. Try it and you will see everything

Thanks, Nowgad. Okay I tried it, but now I'm even more baffled! I selected Option 2 and then Option 3, and they both gave me eight new tracks. I can only use my midi input device on one track at a time, and if I load a drum groove into that track, or play the drums with my midi controller, nothing appears in any of the other tracks. Obviously I guessed wrong about the way it works. What are all the other new (empty) tracks for - and why did it create eight of them, specifically?

[nowgad]

You simply divided all the instruments into individual tracks. It is necessary that the MIDI output map in the plugin matches the MIDI input in the daw.

[nowgad]

All other “empty” tracks are not empty) this is an individual track for each instrument, which is assigned its own midi note. You can place either a midi clip or a step clip there and create the rhythmic pattern you need.

[Ally007]

You simply divided all the instruments into individual tracks. It is necessary that the MIDI output map in the plugin matches the MIDI input in the daw.

In the plugin's settings I switched on MIDI Out, but it made no difference. There are ten different drums/cymbals in the kit, but TW only created eight tracks, and seven remain empty when I play the drum kit.

[Ally007]

All other “empty” tracks are not empty) this is an individual track for each instrument, which is assigned its own midi note. You can place either a midi clip or a step clip there and create the rhythmic pattern you need.

I find that in all the other tracks, I can play any of the drums, just as if I'd creted another drum track in the usual way. And I'm still not sure why TW only created eight tracks when there are ten instruments in the drum kit.

[nowgad]

If you are currently using MT-PowerDrumKit, then TW should have created 14 tracks, 13 with instruments and 1 master track. if my memory serves me right https://www.powerdrumkit.com/presets_drum-maps.php

[pough]

A wrapper is called a Rack. It contains any number of plugins, which can have custom routing within the Rack. You can have one Rack on multiple tracks and the outputs of the plugins in the Rack can be routed to any of the tracks.

A Submix is a type of track that has a number of other tracks routed to it. You can use Racks on Submix tracks, but you don't have to. You can change things later. You can create a new Submix and move other tracks into it. You can remove tracks from the Submix.

I don't know how things are done in Reaper, so I don't know if Waveform can do it the same way.

I just want to note that most of your questions would be answered if you simply tried things to see what happens. Don't be afraid to do that. You can change, add, and delete plugins, Racks and tracks afterwards. In fact that's what I did to be able to answer you.

If I choose Option 1, I end up with a single track, into which all the percussion instruments are loaded, correct?

Hmm... mostly yes. "All the percussion instruments" throws me off a little because you're describing adding a single plugin. So, I mean, all of that one plugin will be added to the Rack.

And if I select Option 2, I'll end up with a separate track for each percussion instrument. Is this correct?

Kind of? Waveform does the best it can with multi-out plugins. It makes assumptions, which might not always be correct. I have never used MT Power Drum Kit, so I can't say if it all works out the way it should. You will get the Rack spread across multiple tracks with default routings. If I'm being cagey, it's because I usually use Addictive Drums and it's routings are mono. Waveform has no idea that's the case and so track two has kick hard-panned left and snare hard-panned right. If your multi-out plugin does the more normal stereo outs, things will probably be good right away.

And if I select Option 3, I'm guessing I'll end up with a separate track for each percussion instrument, PLUS a submix track which simply allows me to control the volumes etc, of all the individual percussion instrument tracks as if they were all in a single track. Is this correct?

Um... Not really? In a Submix, each track within it has its own controls as usual but the audio from all those tracks get routed through the parent Submix track. Changing the volume on the Submix doesn't change the individual volumes on its tracks; it changes the volume of the sum of them.

[pough]

I just looked at the website for that plugin and it looks like by default all its kit pieces are routed to output #1. You will have to open the plugin interface and change the outputs.

Also, number of kit pieces and number of outputs may not be the same numbers. Waveform has no idea how many kit pieces there are - just the number of outputs. And it will assume stereo pairs but you can change the routings.

[Ally007]

If you are currently using MT-PowerDrumKit, then TW should have created 14 tracks, 13 with instruments and 1 master track. if my memory serves me right https://www.powerdrumkit.com/presets_drum-maps.php

It only creates 8 tracks plus a submix track. I can use each of these tracks, individually (not simultaneously) and any/all of the available drums can be played into these tracks; it doesn't seem that each track is for one specific drum or cymbal.

[Ally007]

I just looked at the website for that plugin and it looks like by default all its kit pieces are routed to output #1. You will have to open the plugin interface and change the outputs.

Also, number of kit pieces and number of outputs may not be the same numbers. Waveform has no idea how many kit pieces there are - just the number of outputs. And it will assume stereo pairs but you can change the routings.

I see, thanks! Maybe MT-PDK2 isn't able to route its instruments to different tracks. I don,t see anything in its Settings to that effect. I will try another instrument plugin.

[pough]

I see, thanks! Maybe MT-PDK2 isn't able to route its instruments to different tracks. I don,t see anything in its Settings to that effect. I will try another instrument plugin.

[Ally007]

Thank you, Pough (and for your earlier, longish reply which I just read). I tried setting each instrument as Out1, Out2, Out3, etc, but it didn't seem to make any difference. All instruments being played still get recorded onto the active track only. Same thing happens with Steven Slate Drum Sampler plugin.

[pough]

All instruments being played still get recorded onto the active track only.

You're recording the audio output of the plugin?