I posted this in the Effects forum as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNO2VTI ... RhettShull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXKZqJt ... hannel=EdS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99aEcvr ... athanCordy
Interface/Ampsim Plugin values spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
Properly gain staging your ampsim plugin's input for accurate representation
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2610 posts since 23 Mar, 2005 from Detroit
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- KVRAF
- 2578 posts since 2 Jul, 2010
Has been weird watching my Youtube recommendations fill with this amazing secret technique: remembering that nonlinear effects are level-dependent.
What will it be next week? Cutting muddy low-mids with EQ? ("PRO MIXERS USE THIS TRICK") Using the ratio control for gentler compression? ("YOU'RE PROBABLY MAKING THIS COMPRESSION MISTAKE") Using a reverb to add room reflections? ("THE PROBLEM WITH IRs")
What will it be next week? Cutting muddy low-mids with EQ? ("PRO MIXERS USE THIS TRICK") Using the ratio control for gentler compression? ("YOU'RE PROBABLY MAKING THIS COMPRESSION MISTAKE") Using a reverb to add room reflections? ("THE PROBLEM WITH IRs")
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- KVRAF
- 2194 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK
I think the TL;DR is that gain staging is (as it's always been) important, in that different hardware/software have different expectations/behaviour depending on how 'hot' an input signal is, an so you shouldn't just assume that running any signal in will have a similar effect.
You have to use your ears/eyes and experience what actually happens rather than just copy settings or expecting presets to work.
You have to use your ears/eyes and experience what actually happens rather than just copy settings or expecting presets to work.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2610 posts since 23 Mar, 2005 from Detroit
It's not an actual problem per say as much as a preference, you can send more or less gain with your interface's preamp gain input control if you want, but if you're looking to get accurate calibration the way the developer intended to model the amp according to real hardware controls and how it reacts and sounds, then it's probably good practice to follow this logic. You can also use the input trim on (most) ampsims or use a trim plugin before, but keeping the hardware interface gain on 0 will help eliminate one controlled variable. It helps if you're wanting to dial in a completely clean tone or wondering why a supposed super clean jazz type preset has a bunch of grit/drive/breakup, especially when using single coils or low output pickups. It maybe different if you always use a broken up driven tone, where you don't care if the interface's preamp adds some hardware boost before hitting the ampsim and you like that tone.
In Rhett Shall's video, he does a loose side by side comparison of his real ToneKing Imperial amp compared with NDSP's Toneking Imperial plugin with the same settings, to see if he can match the gain structure and get relatively the same response and tone. He essentially proves that this is a good method if you care about 1:1 accuracy of how an ampsim plugin responds compared to plugging into the real amp with identical settings. If you buy an ampsim plugin because you care about it representing how the real amp responds, then you'd probably want to adhere to this method. SNR/bit loss has nothing to do with this because all guitar pickups are noisy and inherently have a low SNR to begin with, so by plugging into a preamp with higher SNR after, will not change any of that.
In Rhett Shall's video, he does a loose side by side comparison of his real ToneKing Imperial amp compared with NDSP's Toneking Imperial plugin with the same settings, to see if he can match the gain structure and get relatively the same response and tone. He essentially proves that this is a good method if you care about 1:1 accuracy of how an ampsim plugin responds compared to plugging into the real amp with identical settings. If you buy an ampsim plugin because you care about it representing how the real amp responds, then you'd probably want to adhere to this method. SNR/bit loss has nothing to do with this because all guitar pickups are noisy and inherently have a low SNR to begin with, so by plugging into a preamp with higher SNR after, will not change any of that.
