MIDI Channel Filter and MIDI Channel Mapper removed from 2.1

[BobDog]

Sounds quite narrow minded. Why whouldn't they fix it?

I am narrow minded, only one thing I ever reported got fixed so I gave up. Lifes too short.

[ThomasHelzle]

Nope I didn't. I have no belief it would be sorted out if I did!

And if you don't, it won't for sure...

Cheers,

Tom

[amg56]

[quote="ThomasHelzle"][quote="Echoes in the Attic"]Whattttt?!?!? This was the thing I was soooo looking forward to! I can't believe it was removed. I'm also surprised to hear that a midi filter can be done wrong conceptually. Isn't it just ignoring all channels but the chosen ones?[/quote]
... in theory yes, but if you only have Midi channel 1 inside of tracks (which was still the same), what good does a channel filter or translator do you? It would only make sense if a.) the inputs would have channel selectors and b.) tracks could hold notes with different channels.

Cheers,

Tom[/quote]

In addition to controlling the hardware synths, the current implementation also hamstrings users of Vienna Ensemble, because we have to use two tracks to set up every VEP channel, one for the outgoing MIDI, the other to receive the audio output. The projects become unwieldy. If they fixed up the MIDI implementation, it could be done on one track, so I was really looking forward to this upgrade. I hope they get it right.

[u-u-u]

Conceptually it makes sense to me that there aren't multiple midi channels going through a track. E.g. if i put a note effect into the chain, I'm happy that I don't have to think about which midi channels it should effect and which it should ignore. THAT would really kill workflow!

Each Vst that supports multiple note inputs (input midi channels) should offer those as note source selectors in the Bitwig GUI (in the same way as e.g. the note reciever does). And maybe each one if them should get a Note FX slot for putting note FX into them.

And if a midi hardware offers multiple midi outputs to be fed into the daw, those should be offered through the API/the controller settings (and can have differentnames) so that they're available as different note sources in the instrument track inputs. Maybe those note sources should have the ability to group them (so that I can have e.g. channels 1, 5 and 15 of a midi controller seen as one note input source by the program)

So yes, where it comes to periphery like plugins or hardware there should be chosers/filters but not multiple channels going through the device chains in parallel!

[xbitz]

there are couple of VSTs which supports channels nicely, like Nora(chord chopper) which keeps the channel to voice(chord) assignments(each voice comes from it with different channel number), or RapidComposer which uses channels to separate its track(different tracks are routed out from it with different channel numbers) outs from each other, there are also many ReaJS scripts which also use those numbers, ofc. I can imagine that it would big PITA to the Bitwig programmers but ... the absence of it is a quite big PITA for us too

" I don't have to think about which midi channels it should effect and which it should ignore. THAT would really kill workflow!"

dunno the default would be still the 1 so normally it's not add additionally cognitive overload ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load )

[ThomasHelzle]

I don't think it would be that dramatic or complicated.

The one thing we would like to see is a selector for the Midi Channel for the track (and I really like the idea that it can be more than one), that does not add any confusion IMO - it's more confusing that it's missing.
ATM we can work around that with something like my multichannel controller scripts up to a point, even though it's clumsy.

The other thing I would imagine as an option if a track should handle Midi Channels or not. The default could remain as it is, merge down everything to channel 1. But as a second option, every note etc would "simply" remember it's channel too. This does not feel like such a big deal to me actually, although it probably needs a lot of changes throughout the software, both GUI and engine related.

This would make sense input-wise for Note-per-channel MPE as well as for multitimbral instruments etc. and output- or inside-of-tracks wise for drum-machines that send on multiple channels and arpeggiators/sequencers etc. that are able to differentiate by channel.

And honestly, channels are such a basic part of Midi and are there for such a long time, that everybody halfways familiar with Midi should not have a problem. Again, I think it's partly the other way around, that the absence is much weirder.
And: The longer Bitwig waits with implementing them, the more complicated it will become.

I proposed to the team a very long time ago that internally it could be done with a kind of group channel. You only have one "multichannel track" that shows all the notes - maybe each channel in a separate colour - and you can unfold it to see each channel separately. So you have the best of both worlds in a compact format that allows both editing in place with all channels visible but you can also separate them easily for detail editing.

I'm looking forward to what the team comes up with

Cheers,

Tom

[xbitz]

yepp, "multichannel track" would be essential for orchestration plugins like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHlBuyw3UKc
from 2.30

which uses different channels for different articulations

[Echoes in the Attic]

I don't think it would be that dramatic or complicated.

The one thing we would like to see is a selector for the Midi Channel for the track (and I really like the idea that it can be more than one), that does not add any confusion IMO - it's more confusing that it's missing.
ATM we can work around that with something like my multichannel controller scripts up to a point, even though it's clumsy.

The other thing I would imagine as an option if a track should handle Midi Channels or not. The default could remain as it is, merge down everything to channel 1. But as a second option, every note etc would "simply" remember it's channel too. This does not feel like such a big deal to me actually, although it probably needs a lot of changes throughout the software, both GUI and engine related.

This would make sense input-wise for Note-per-channel MPE as well as for multitimbral instruments etc. and output- or inside-of-tracks wise for drum-machines that send on multiple channels and arpeggiators/sequencers etc. that are able to differentiate by channel.

And honestly, channels are such a basic part of Midi and are there for such a long time, that everybody halfways familiar with Midi should not have a problem. Again, I think it's partly the other way around, that the absence is much weirder.
And: The longer Bitwig waits with implementing them, the more complicated it will become.

I proposed to the team a very long time ago that internally it could be done with a kind of group channel. You only have one "multichannel track" that shows all the notes - maybe each channel in a separate colour - and you can unfold it to see each channel separately. So you have the best of both worlds in a compact format that allows both editing in place with all channels visible but you can also separate them easily for detail editing.

I'm looking forward to what the team comes up with

Cheers,

Tom

I agree and this modification goes along with the other glaring issue with their MPE implementation which is that the midi channel is not stored with the note, as it is in other DAWs. Seems like overall they should allow all channels through a track, allow it to be filtered (I'd prefer this be done with a device so that you can split channels in tack layers, but as long as it can be filtered per layer within a track) and they should store the channel played for a given note. This change is really needed I think and for me is the most important of the core functionality that should be improved.

[pdxindy]

I don't think it would be that dramatic or complicated.

The one thing we would like to see is a selector for the Midi Channel for the track (and I really like the idea that it can be more than one), that does not add any confusion IMO - it's more confusing that it's missing.
ATM we can work around that with something like my multichannel controller scripts up to a point, even though it's clumsy.

The other thing I would imagine as an option if a track should handle Midi Channels or not. The default could remain as it is, merge down everything to channel 1. But as a second option, every note etc would "simply" remember it's channel too. This does not feel like such a big deal to me actually, although it probably needs a lot of changes throughout the software, both GUI and engine related.

This would make sense input-wise for Note-per-channel MPE as well as for multitimbral instruments etc. and output- or inside-of-tracks wise for drum-machines that send on multiple channels and arpeggiators/sequencers etc. that are able to differentiate by channel.

And honestly, channels are such a basic part of Midi and are there for such a long time, that everybody halfways familiar with Midi should not have a problem. Again, I think it's partly the other way around, that the absence is much weirder.
And: The longer Bitwig waits with implementing them, the more complicated it will become.

I proposed to the team a very long time ago that internally it could be done with a kind of group channel. You only have one "multichannel track" that shows all the notes - maybe each channel in a separate colour - and you can unfold it to see each channel separately. So you have the best of both worlds in a compact format that allows both editing in place with all channels visible but you can also separate them easily for detail editing.

I'm looking forward to what the team comes up with

Cheers,

Tom

I agree and this modification goes along with the other glaring issue with their MPE implementation which is that the midi channel is not stored with the note, as it is in other DAWs. Seems like overall they should allow all channels through a track, allow it to be filtered (I'd prefer this be done with a device so that you can split channels in tack layers, but as long as it can be filtered per layer within a track) and they should store the channel played for a given note. This change is really needed I think and for me is the most important of the core functionality that should be improved.

+1 to both

If you are going to support MPE, you need to store the midi channel. It is an essential part of it.

And just generally speaking, I want whatever midi data I send to a DAW to be recorded. Period... not some of it, or most of it... all of it.

Likewise, I want to be able to export it exactly as I played it. No can do... It is a pretty basic function to accurately record/playback and export what is played.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Yup. I've made these suggestions to bitwig support before the midi filters were added and removed. I hope you guys are emailing them too!

[incendy]

This is the one thing about Bitwig that is killing me. I have some kontakt instruments that have to be set to 6 channels in order to get MPE to work etc, but I can't make it work in Bitwig. I have created a grouped track with all the instruments from kontakt and assigned the plugin and midi channel. They all play on the same instrument though, I don't get it. It works fine if I just use the kontakt Player, but through Bitwig it won't work. It also won't send pitch bend if I set it to more than one channel.

Love Bitwig overall, but this one area is really frustrating.

[ThomasHelzle]

This is the one thing about Bitwig that is killing me. I have some kontakt instruments that have to be set to 6 channels in order to get MPE to work etc, but I can't make it work in Bitwig. I have created a grouped track with all the instruments from kontakt and assigned the plugin and midi channel. They all play on the same instrument though, I don't get it. It works fine if I just use the kontakt Player, but through Bitwig it won't work. It also won't send pitch bend if I set it to more than one channel.

Love Bitwig overall, but this one area is really frustrating.

You should be able to work around this by creating a group track with Kontakt on it and six sub-tracks, each receiving on one separate channel with the help of my "TomsGenericKeyboard" from here: https://github.com/ThomasHelzle/Toms_Bitwig_Scripts
You can then send the track-output of each of those tracks directly to the Kontakt VST on the main track and if you do so, a Midi Channel selector shows up with a number on the output selector.

Cumbersome, clumsy and silly, but works for the time being...

Cheers,

Tom

[incendy]

This is the one thing about Bitwig that is killing me. I have some kontakt instruments that have to be set to 6 channels in order to get MPE to work etc, but I can't make it work in Bitwig. I have created a grouped track with all the instruments from kontakt and assigned the plugin and midi channel. They all play on the same instrument though, I don't get it. It works fine if I just use the kontakt Player, but through Bitwig it won't work. It also won't send pitch bend if I set it to more than one channel.

Love Bitwig overall, but this one area is really frustrating.

You should be able to work around this by creating a group track with Kontakt on it and six sub-tracks, each receiving on one separate channel with the help of my "TomsGenericKeyboard" from here: https://github.com/ThomasHelzle/Toms_Bitwig_Scripts
You can then send the track-output of each of those tracks directly to the Kontakt VST on the main track and if you do so, a Midi Channel selector shows up with a number on the output selector.

Cumbersome, clumsy and silly, but works for the time being...

Cheers,

Tom

I will give it a try, thank you!

[Netsu]

The day they implement channels for notes in clips and a channel filter is the day I upgrade to Bitwig 2. The synth layers I could build with that would be glorious.

[u-u-u]

If you are going to support MPE, you need to store the midi channel. It is an essential part of it.

I'm still not sure about that. I don't know the MPE format too exactly. But it is really needed that each note remembers its channel it was send on? Juat to explain how I understand it:
midi is restricted to only one pitch bend/pressure/... cc per channel. So they use multiple midi channels to get multiple pitch bends. Inside Bitwig Studio each note can contain its individual expression data so actally it has more capabilities. Why does each note need to remember a midi channel? And if one needs different channel s/he could record different channels to different tracks. (From the user's point of view that would make more sense, would't it? I just want to say - midi is a very technical (machine communication) format, not a user friendly one (which is easy to edit and work creatively with).)
Just simply recording midi 1 to 1 might be a quick solution but I'm still not convinced. But maybe you can explain to me why Bitwig should record MIDI and not it's own note format.