Question about Chinese Winds VSTi

[xander]

WOW, xander -- that's a great endorsement... Now my mouth is watering!

I just popped onto their site again, to listen to those demos of ChineeWinds -- if I can make this thing sound anywhere near as authentic as those demos, I mean if it's possible without jumping through crazy programming hoops to get a good sound, then I will become these guys' biggest fan.

('cause those demos sound AWESOME... especially the newest one, "demo 4", which I hadn't heard before about 10 minutes ago)

The demos are straight out of the instrument, so you'd have to try pretty hard to screw up the sound. Maybe if you used some bad mixing or FX/compression, then I guess you could make it sound poor, but it would be hard.

Personally, I can't stop play ChineeWinds and leave it running on my system for hours at a time lately, so when I have a stroke of inspiration I can run over to my DAW and try it out. Totally amazing sounds -- I am really into learing more about the use and application of Oriental instruments, so it's great we now have such excellent access to these sounds now other than the usual Western insruments such as oboes, clarinets and so on. Maybe this is the first truly unique sounding VSTi to appear in a long time. Anyway, I am extremely happy with it -- giving me heaps of inspiration and new ideas.

For my neo-industrial compositions (you can hear these if you click my sig), I CAN'T WAIT for ChineeKong -- amazing

[dvonae]

But they haven't fixed the product -- and it's not like a fix would be a major re-engineering of the VST.

It's not major re-engineering, I agree with that ... unless you don't have access to the source code.

Okay, then it would seem the developer of the sample player needs some "arm twisting." Personally, I don't much care who's fault the problem is blamed on -- I won't spend money on an otherwise great-sounding product whose player is fundamentally flawed... but that's just me... Others are content to live with the flaws -- more power to them -- it's their money.

[xander]

But they haven't fixed the product -- and it's not like a fix would be a major re-engineering of the VST.

It's not major re-engineering, I agree with that ... unless you don't have access to the source code.

Okay, then it would seem the developer of the sample player needs some "arm twisting." Personally, I don't much care who's fault the problem is blamed on -- I won't spend money on an otherwise great-sounding product whose player is fundamentally flawed... but that's just me... I'm a pedantic little dork...

99% of the software out there has at least several "flaws" -- some major and some minor. I would say this is a minor flaw in an otherwise great product. But hell, I'm just a user who uses it with no problems daily so what would I know eh?

[dvonae]

"dvonae, the highly experienced musical genius expert newbie"

Come on, how much experience does a person have to have to voice their opinion about a product? And where did you read that I considered myself a musical genius or expert? Yes, I'm a newbie. I'm also a consumer who has every right to voice my opinion about what I like and don't like about a new product offering. All I'm saying is I won't spend money on this product -- not until they have a better answer than "install a second hard drive".

99% of the software out there has at least several "flaws" -- some major and some minor. I would say this is a minor flaw in an otherwise great product.

It is an otherwise great product, but I also have a limited budget to work with, so if I'm going to make decisions about what to buy, I'm going to wait for the developer to come up with a better answer than "buy another hard drive." When that happens, I will be much more interested in spending my money on this product and likely several others from these folks.

But hell, I'm just a user who uses it with no problems daily so what would I know eh?

Outstanding for you. You know what you need and you're willing to work around the flaws in the product because you like the sound and are comfortable spending your money in this way. I'm sorry you feel the need to insult my opinion (or the fact that I'm relatively new here) just to make yourself feel better about your purchase.

[xander]

...I'm also a consumer who has every right to voice my opinion about what I like and don't like about a new product offering. All I'm saying is I won't spend money on this product -- not until they have a better answer than "install a second hard drive"...

Lighten up!

Firstly, since this is a developers' forum, one has the priviledge of helping to test and to contribute to the development of a product, or of course, whine about it.

Statements like: "I don't want it because it doesn't do what I want, etc." don't exactly help.

Also, the very fact that you can contribute positively directly to a dev here means that you may have a say in it's direction and enhancement for your own benefit as well as others.

I find your statements not so contructive in a dev's thread but more like whining.

That said, the work-arounds are too hard? You do not specifically need to install a second hard drive -- I didn't... have you figured it out yet?

=========================================
We have two options, either

1. Users can put the dll anywhere they want, but have to put the soundbanks to a fixed drive position.

2. Users can put the soundbank anywhere they want, but the dll has to be in the same folder as the soundbank.

We picked the first route in the past, but it appears that some users are not happy with it. What do you guys think, should we stick to the old way, or should we allow the soundbank to be anywhere, but the dll has to go with the soundbank as well?

If more ppl are in favor of the latter, we will switch to that from here on and release a new build right away.
========================================

Cheers,
Alex

[dvonae]

Statements like: "I don't want it because it doesn't do what I want, etc." don't exactly help.

Also, the very fact that you can contribute positively directly to a dev here means that you may have a say in it's direction and enhancement for your own benefit as well as others.

I find your statements not so contructive in a dev's thread but more like whining.

Understood... and your point is well stated and entirely on target... ouch... I got so fixated on this tiny issue and then took offense to your "pedantic dork" comment...

That said, the work-arounds are too hard? You do not specifically need to install a second hard drive -- I didn't... have you figured it out yet?

Yes. I feel properly chastised and educated.

And I should know better than to criticize without having something constructive to add to the mix -- I'm a writer by training for gods sake...


We now return you to more productive endeavors...

_________________
--
-=>( D' "pedantic dork" Vonae )<=-

[xander]

I also want to add -- for the sake of clarification and honesty -- that I have an arrangement as a developer with Kongaudio and they are personal friends of mine here in Beijing.

Therefore, I have a personal as well as a somewhat vested interest in the success of their products.

Therefore, I may seem a bit defensive as a consequence. Why?

Because no one except another developer will really ever appreciate how much this product (and many others) is a labour of love rather than a huge, profit-making enterprise.

Amazing amounts of effort, constant worries over piracy, setting up the product distribution and support mechanisms, gathering user-test data, implementation of enhancements, further testing in a multitude of host environments, etc., makes it almost not worth it.

Piracy itself may be a mere nuisance to a company like NI or Steinberg, but it can be a death-blow to a small dev -- and that's f**king reality regardless of the arguments pro/con for P2P freedom and all that "Try Before You Buy" bullshite. etc.

Sadly, it may get to the point where many small developers stop trying and just share the results of their efforts with friends and perhaps a small group of contributors. So who are the real losers then?

There are literally hundreds of manhours invested in just ChineeWinds alone, not mentioning any of the other products being developed. For the few initial sales thus far, the constant question is, "Is it all worth it?"

So it gets very tiring and seems sometimes rather unrewarding when, in the developers forums you read lots of put-downs, whining, and non-constructive statements, petty sniping and argument (not pointing fingers here) as can be seen in many of the threads lately.

And even after that, to work so hard and then see all your work offered for free on one of the P2P networks is quite literally heartbreaking.

Words of encouragement do help immensely.

[xander]

Statements like: "I don't want it because it doesn't do what I want, etc." don't exactly help.

Also, the very fact that you can contribute positively directly to a dev here means that you may have a say in it's direction and enhancement for your own benefit as well as others.

I find your statements not so contructive in a dev's thread but more like whining.

Understood... and your point is well stated and entirely on target... ouch... I got so fixated on this tiny issue and then took offense to your "pedantic dork" comment...

That said, the work-arounds are too hard? You do not specifically need to install a second hard drive -- I didn't... have you figured it out yet?

Yes. I feel properly chastised and educated.

And I should know better than to criticize without having something constructive to add to the mix -- I'm a writer by training for gods sake...


We now return you to more productive endeavors...

_________________
--
-=>( D' "pedantic dork" Vonae )<=-

Sorry about that pedantic dork comment. Meant in 'jocular' jock-type rib-poking fun but I did get rather bit too defensive sounding and I apologise. Me sense of yoomer is sometimes a little south of standard these days...

[Gregjazz]

You know what, I saw that warning on the website about the D: issue. But the sounds are so good they are worth it. It may be a nuisance, but I think it'd definitely be worth it. Hopefully I'll be able to get my copy of ChineeWinds really soon. I don't want to miss the discount!

[dvonae]

So it gets very tiring and seems sometimes rather unrewarding when, in the developers forums you read lots of put-downs, whining, and non-constructive statements, petty sniping and argument (not pointing fingers here) as can be seen in many of the threads lately.

Point fingers all you like in my direction... I was dumb enough to paint a target on my forehead for all to see... I'll take my lumps...

This is what I get for shooting my mouth off without thinking. I do recognize how much work goes into creating a finished product and the risks and trevails that come with releasing it for public consumption.

Sorry about that pedantic dork comment. Meant in 'jocular' jock-type rib-poking fun but I did get rather bit too defensive sounding and I apologise. Me sense of yoomer is sometimes a little south of standard these days...

No need to apologize! It forced me to actually "improve my word power" by looking up pedantic to be sure I knew what it meant. Seems to fit pretty well in this case.
As for the 'dork' part -- I'm a computer geek in the real world, that's how I pay the bills. So I guess being called a dork isn't too far from that, is it?

[xander]

It's cool

Also, sometimes I need to jump into the thread to make sure things are clear, because English is not the first language of the Kong folks

But all up, it should also be said that the Kongaudio devs are not just devs, but extraodinarily talented and highly respected professional musicians and film-scorers here in China & it's kind of an honor to work with them.

Gregjazz -- Great comments coming from an excellent musician -- thanks mate

Cheers,
Alex

*oops -- just an edit to mention that sosayweall is doing a fantastic job recently as the Kongaudio mod in here and his english is excellent too

[Markleford]

Hey you two, settle down: no fighting!

Anyway, I don't see as how there would be an issue with releasing two versions of the dll, one that had a fixed position and one that used the same path as the vst directory. WOuld that make everyone happy?

Also, couldn't the Kong guys write a utility to patch the binary to allow the user to set a custom path for the data files? I could do it myself if they can't, but that would likely be considered reverse-engineering and likely illegal.

- m

[xander]

Hey you two, settle down: no fighting!

Anyway, I don't see as how there would be an issue with releasing two versions of the dll, one that had a fixed position and one that used the same path as the vst directory. WOuld that make everyone happy?

Also, couldn't the Kong guys write a utility to patch the binary to allow the user to set a custom path for the data files? I could do it myself if they can't, but that would likely be considered reverse-engineering and likely illegal.

- m

It's a great idea and if you wanted to write it I'm sure it would be appreciated (if Shan isn't already doing so).

He's been known to be quite... er how shall we say... generous with those who've helped out

Anyway, let's see what he says about it -- but excellent idea and sounds like it would be an acceptable fix for sure.

[M'Snah]

I also want to add -- for the sake of clarification and honesty -- that I have an arrangement as a developer with Kongaudio and they are personal friends of mine here in Beijing.

Do they look anything like the picture you posted in the June contest thread? (I'd almost say: A friend of Alex is a friend of mine )

btw I hope anyone reading this thread also notices the other thread about the VST update, the "D:" issue that was being discussed here has already been solved in the VST, within a few days after we emphasized it in this thread...

[xander]

Do they look anything like the picture you posted in the June contest thread? (I'd almost say: A friend of Alex is a friend of mine )

You mean this friend, yeah?



There's more than one good reason a man wakes up in the mornin' and this is one of them...wot say?

btw I hope anyone reading this thread also notices the other thread about the VST update, the "D:" issue that was being discussed here has already been solved in the VST, within a few days after we emphasized it in this thread...

Indeed old mate - failed to mention that as well -- thanks.

As it stands, Shan is still waiting for Jeff to address a coupla wee issues and then she'll be right, no worries.