I can understand the desire to limit audio modules or effects.
I really do not understand the sentiment against XY controllers. They can add to the expressiveness, playability, and deepness of the patch, with no CPU cost. Just like programming a good velocity/keytracking/modwheel/aftertouch response.
Being that it also takes extra time to configure them correctly, I'm perplexed at the initial sentiment that they are some how a way to artificially boost the perception of a patch, they are part of the patch!
Patch Contest #5?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5234 posts since 25 Feb, 2008
Just in case anyone missed it:
Seriously, if anyone fancies having a go...
Any takers?hakey wrote:if someone else wants to take over the running of these contests I will be more than happy to relinquish the reigns
Seriously, if anyone fancies having a go...
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- KVRian
- 505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009
would you like some help?hakey wrote:Just in case anyone missed it:
Any takers?hakey wrote:if someone else wants to take over the running of these contests I will be more than happy to relinquish the reigns
Seriously, if anyone fancies having a go...
don't give up
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- Banned
- 6129 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society
Sorry hakey. You know I was just kidding.
Your right about the use of the XY's in the contest, but I think they are useful for live and recording mixing, and automation things.
If you think it's best to leave them out of the contest. Then you can just make it a rule. Which would keep it simpler, and easier for those who don't feel like using them.
Your right about the use of the XY's in the contest, but I think they are useful for live and recording mixing, and automation things.
If you think it's best to leave them out of the contest. Then you can just make it a rule. Which would keep it simpler, and easier for those who don't feel like using them.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5234 posts since 25 Feb, 2008
And just to set things straight re XY pads: I am NOT against their use! In fact, I am all for the use of XY pads where such use is well considered and they really add something to a patch. FWIW I thought that the many of the patches in the last ZPC used XY's very well and my voting choice reflected that 
. I also think that that kind of theme was one where the use of multiple XY's was absolutely appropriate.
I do think that poor use of XY's can detract from a patch, for instance, where they are just an unnecessary distraction, or the chosen parameters and/or scaling aren't well though out; an extreme example might be where moving an XY pushes a patch into audio clipping.
Wearing my (ex)contest organizers hat I was only thinking of how I could slightly focus and simplify the tasks with a view to attracting more participation and with particular regard to those who might otherwise find taking part a little daunting. Several people have said that they haven't got time to take part in these contest, which leads me to think that imposing a limited module format might be a good idea.
One further, wholly subjective, point of view - I'm not so sure that any of us, myself included, have really nailed the core disciplines of patching, namely, producing well balanced, pleasing, musical timbres and we might do well to concentrate on getting the basics right before moving on to more advanced techniques.
. I also think that that kind of theme was one where the use of multiple XY's was absolutely appropriate.I do think that poor use of XY's can detract from a patch, for instance, where they are just an unnecessary distraction, or the chosen parameters and/or scaling aren't well though out; an extreme example might be where moving an XY pushes a patch into audio clipping.
Wearing my (ex)contest organizers hat I was only thinking of how I could slightly focus and simplify the tasks with a view to attracting more participation and with particular regard to those who might otherwise find taking part a little daunting. Several people have said that they haven't got time to take part in these contest, which leads me to think that imposing a limited module format might be a good idea.
One further, wholly subjective, point of view - I'm not so sure that any of us, myself included, have really nailed the core disciplines of patching, namely, producing well balanced, pleasing, musical timbres and we might do well to concentrate on getting the basics right before moving on to more advanced techniques.
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 11 Dec, 2008 from Minneapolis
I'll have something nailed down by Saturday for a patch contest theme and start/end dates. I'm open to suggestions, and will go through the patch contest threads between now and then to pull out what people have already suggested.
The consensus seems to be that limiting the number of modules and XYs makes these more fun, so that could be decided per contest. Also I'm thinking a running superset of submitted patches categorized like a preset bank would be cool. If we limit XYs, adding XYs to patches in that bank could be another contest?
Some ideas:
* Singing XMF(s) (humans, animals, and aliens allowed ?) - essentially, fun with DIY formants (Urs's suggestion)
* create a patch with 'space' without using reverb, delay, modulation, sideband effects (using other parts of Zebra to mimic those is fair and intended)
* create a patch with two sound generating modules; one that's relatively tonal, one's that relatively atonal, in any configuration, filters / fx allowed
* Patch with delay length over 1 bar long
* pick any geographic location on map, create a sound that matches
* patch that suggests a sound found in nature (water, birds, volcanos, gaseous discharges or whatever) but that is musically playable
Finally, there's some educational value in here somewhere, maybe some YouTube videos highlighting the workings of winning patches (and by extension Zebra) would be interesting?
[e]some other ideas:
* broken instrument - it doesn't have to be a real instrument, but it should sound broken
* starting points - make an interesting 'init' or 'bass-init', 'bell-init' etc. patch
* anything but a patch - oscillator templates, MSEGs, Zebrify patches, anything but a Zebra patch that is useful, flexible, easy to understand etc.
* free-for-all - 2 oscillators and a filter (max 4 modules in synth grid, 4 in FX grid)
* scary sounds - something creepy (disqualification for sudden loud noises ...)
* answer any of the random "how do I make this sound?" questions that pop up in the sound design KvR forums with a Zebra patch
The consensus seems to be that limiting the number of modules and XYs makes these more fun, so that could be decided per contest. Also I'm thinking a running superset of submitted patches categorized like a preset bank would be cool. If we limit XYs, adding XYs to patches in that bank could be another contest?
Some ideas:
* Singing XMF(s) (humans, animals, and aliens allowed ?) - essentially, fun with DIY formants (Urs's suggestion)
* create a patch with 'space' without using reverb, delay, modulation, sideband effects (using other parts of Zebra to mimic those is fair and intended)
* create a patch with two sound generating modules; one that's relatively tonal, one's that relatively atonal, in any configuration, filters / fx allowed
* Patch with delay length over 1 bar long
* pick any geographic location on map, create a sound that matches
* patch that suggests a sound found in nature (water, birds, volcanos, gaseous discharges or whatever) but that is musically playable
Finally, there's some educational value in here somewhere, maybe some YouTube videos highlighting the workings of winning patches (and by extension Zebra) would be interesting?
[e]some other ideas:
* broken instrument - it doesn't have to be a real instrument, but it should sound broken
* starting points - make an interesting 'init' or 'bass-init', 'bell-init' etc. patch
* anything but a patch - oscillator templates, MSEGs, Zebrify patches, anything but a Zebra patch that is useful, flexible, easy to understand etc.
* free-for-all - 2 oscillators and a filter (max 4 modules in synth grid, 4 in FX grid)
* scary sounds - something creepy (disqualification for sudden loud noises ...)
* answer any of the random "how do I make this sound?" questions that pop up in the sound design KvR forums with a Zebra patch
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- KVRAF
- 11335 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC
xh3rv,
I like the choices... I don't have anything to add to the list. I'm really open to any of them. My favorite one is the broken instrument (it just sounds intriguing for some reason), but any chance you would be willing to create a poll to help in making the choice? I'm not against executive decisions either, so your call.
I like the choices... I don't have anything to add to the list. I'm really open to any of them. My favorite one is the broken instrument (it just sounds intriguing for some reason), but any chance you would be willing to create a poll to help in making the choice? I'm not against executive decisions either, so your call.
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- u-he
- 30216 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
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- KVRAF
- 1723 posts since 17 Jul, 2001 from Milan, Italy
I like the "singing patch" and the "simple pacth" (like 4-5 moudles max in the grid) ideas...
a simpler patch could maybe attract some more contestants
a simpler patch could maybe attract some more contestants
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- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany