Initiative to help the less fortunate obtain legit software and help spread the love. Seriously.

[Mutant]

Why not start a new monthly "Freeware host challenge" ?

Competitors would be only allowed to use some exotic little hosts with only free plugins to make songs.

I think it would be pretty interesting to create something in Minihost or VSThost.

It would also show every newbie that you don't need to pirate Nuendo or Pro Tools to become a musician.

If noone dont need it , why a lot of people works on them? They just want to throw money?

May be a newbie wants to be producer and good sound engineer?

or may be wants to be great electronic and trance producer ?

Can you show me a producer who uses except FL,Cubase,Pro tools or nuendo,Logic

May be a newbie wants to work on studios in the future ?
When they will ask " do you know use Pro Tools,Cubase or Nuendo "

Show me a professional studio who uses only basic DAW or what else.

You totally misunderstood my words.

I only suggested one possible way to determine who would be worthy to receive a professional host for free.

[aciddose]

Show me a professional studio who uses only basic DAW or what else.

the warehouse studio in vancouver contains only a single computer. it's a c-64 used to control one of the consoles which they maintain in it's original condition because they swear by it's performance and are unwilling to modernize for fear of losing it's specific properties.

or did you mean software studios?

there are so many variations on "professional" and "studio" it's pretty impossible to make the argument you're making.

of course suggesting that anyone should be forced to use a specific piece of software is ridiculous. as we already know, they have other options which they'll be happy to take.

[DreamTrance]

You totally misunderstood my words.

I only suggested one possible way to determine who would be worthy to receive a professional host for free.

Excuse me , sorry . Now i understood.

It is really good idea. But a lot of people has different style music . How can you compare each one with other skills .

May be one competitor will make Rap beat, other one Trance,other one Dub .. ext .. ext.

[Kriminal]

to qualify for this incentive, how do you prove you are 'poor' ?

as for the comps, can only poor people enter them?


how poor do you need to be?

surely (not shirley) these are all open to abuse, ie anyone can enter a comp and win a synth, or anyone can get a synth for half price (50/50)

[aciddose]

krim, i assure you i've complained excessively and made exactly those points already

we want to focus on suggestions to avoid these problems. i think everyone that counts has already acknowledged they exist.

to qualify, well i think you'd only need to be needy enough to be deserving or shameful enough to enter without being needy.

what little honor there is should limit abuse. besides, assuming the rules are set up scene-style to prevent easy cheating and the compos are voted scene-style it has been shown to function without any significant issue for now nearly thirty years. not including the world before the "scene".

(see scene dot org or #trax. i don't mean young hipster kids.)

personally, if i were going to even consider cheating and lies to enter into a competition and actually produce a work of art which wins that competition in return for some free software... i would have already had the torrent running before finishing this paragraph.

[grymmjack]

Yes. Moderators have no control over such stuff, we're just janitors. Not even Dilbert-style omniscient janitors.

[grymmjack]

One synth challenge idea is a good one because it sorts the wheat from the chaff, taking away the piracy element period, and along with it the requirement of passing judgment on someone.

Competitions are anonymous and only the music stands to determine the course.

Also the output of a competitors music can easily be judged in a non threatening way since it's part of being in a competition - you are judged, and it could be simply known if the competitor was actually genuinely trying or just putting out some garbage to try and get some goodies.

I think this has some merit.

Giving back in the way of sound design, graphic design, organization, documentation translation, etc. is also good.

Perhaps these are not mutually exclusive ideas, but a sort of KVR Goodfellows sub culture, where we encourage others to join and be good and give back to foster the continuation of our shared interests in music.

Sort of like a guild

I would contribute money into a kitty to purchase small prizes, my own products of sound design and graphic design, and so on. I think others would do this too, and many devs would benefit because we establish a sort of perpetual positive motion. Devs are encouraged by people making music in the compos, sound designers making presets, skinners making things beautiful to behold, contestants are encouraged by the solidarity and potential to be involved in a positive group of like minds.

We don't need a bunch of rules, and separate scenarios and stuff, I think we know what to do and the good news is, we've sort of been doing this already we just haven't given it a name right?

I mean consider that there are many altruistic people just posting in this thread, some critics and logically so, but quite a few givers let's call them. The ones that could begin building the fellowship etc.

Loose and ad-hoc, but that's how all scenes are, they seem to work mostly, maybe we don't need a council, a website, a structure, maybe just some consistent habitual threads (like OSC), we just bump it up a bit and have a sticky for giving back; sound design, graphic design, help with web hosting, help with web site stuff, all free, all no strings and all just for the sake of building something good and fun.

To learn with reciprocal compassion and respect in a place built to share such things.

[Kriminal]

krim, i assure you i've complained excessively and made exactly those points already

apologies, i havent read every single post

krim, i assure you i've complained excessively and made exactly
what little honor there is should limit abuse. besides, assuming the rules are set up scene-style to prevent easy cheating and the compos are voted scene-style it has been shown to function without any significant issue for now nearly thirty years. not including the world before the "scene".

the only scene i know of is the one in 'frisco, a lively bunch they are

[xoxos]

i've suggested "one hour compos" as they're called with this style many, many times. nobody ever seems really interested.

missed 10 pages of thread, ftr pending my immediate environment is conducive, you can pencil me in as a proponent. timed compositions are useful exercises at the least.

[Nielzie]

I agree with helping the poor to give them somewhat equal chances. But..

How do you know if someone is really too poor to buy legit software or not?

You'll have to know the income and even the expenses (not someone who bought too much luxury stuff on credit would apply imho) of the person to decide that.

EDIT: whoops I just noticed that someone has addressed this point already

[VitaminD]

krim, i assure you i've complained excessively and made exactly those points already

we want to focus on suggestions to avoid these problems. i think everyone that counts has already acknowledged they exist.

to qualify, well i think you'd only need to be needy enough to be deserving or shameful enough to enter without being needy.

what little honor there is should limit abuse. besides, assuming the rules are set up scene-style to prevent easy cheating and the compos are voted scene-style it has been shown to function without any significant issue for now nearly thirty years. not including the world before the "scene".

(see scene dot org or #trax. i don't mean young hipster kids.)

personally, if i were going to even consider cheating and lies to enter into a competition and actually produce a work of art which wins that competition in return for some free software... i would have already had the torrent running before finishing this paragraph.

The issue with the #trax contests was everyone has a style and the more you listen to a particular person's songs, the more you can figure out who wrote what based off of this style and thus vote for your friends.. or purposely not vote for your perceived 'enemies.' There were distinct clique lines in the mod scene.

I don't think this should be based primarily off of musical abilities. Those can be improved through practice. Part of them can be improved through better tools. However, I feel Desire to write and 'financial' need should be more important. But in a way where everyone isn't trying to one up the other on who is poorest or we just aren't funding our friends.

I have won a ton of software in various competitions I started with a trial version of Z3ta and entered a contest Rene was having to make 30 second mini 'songs' with just one patch in each. I think I entered 7 or 8 and had to do so by recording multiple takes and sewing them together to get around the trial version hiss. I had a strong desire to have a 'professional' synthesizer to improve the quality of my music. Out of that 7 or 8 one was picked.

I think this is why TTOZ wants to limit this to kvrians who have been here sometime as you know they are serious about music and can filter those simply looking for a freebie to add to their collection of baubles.

[Nielzie]

I live in Eastern Europe as a student,now. Here is rent 312 dollar and one room.

I have an EnergyXT2 license that I could donate to you DreamTrance, would you like that perhaps?

[wwjd]

where/who exactly are these people that can't afford a DAW?
I've not read this whole thread...

personally, I've seen it is better if people learn to work for something rather than get handouts, but that's all I have to say about that.

I agree - in an ideal word, reward is commensurate with sacrifice.

One of the biggest issues I've noticed personally just from looking at the threads on KVR is the disparity in relative costs of goods. I think someone else pointed out that for someone living in Eastern Europe for example, $100 or $200 US towards an instrument/plug-in/daw might be equal to a month's rent, whereas for a employed professional in the US it is relatively inexpensive. There is a much greater ratio of the costs of consumer goods to food/housing.

So, small sacrifice for someone like me == big reward for a fellow musician.

I understand and respect that.

On another perspective (and not to be percieved as negative against this thread at all) I've witnessed those without talent getting the tools to make thier copycat "music" that probably should not even be pursuing music. But the tools are available, free cheap or pirate, so they do and call themselves a "Producer". I'd hate for EVERYONE on the planet to get access to things they shouldn't even bother with. It reduces the value for those with skills. I suck at golf, but give a free set of clubs and I'll go play and still suck. But, I won't be posting all my scores online hoping to compete or beat anyone else, taking up the space, flooding the market. Not sure if that analogy is very clear...

Personally, my charity is completely local, working for free with friends, bands and studios. I've been offered positions and money and usually I refuse because going pro takes the FUN out of it for me. So, I won't participate here, but do this already with locals I know in person. Good luck with this venture. Should be cool!

[aciddose]

my experience with golf is that the important thing is the beer, and the carts, and combination thereof.

you don't need to be a master of a trade to enjoy participating in it. nor do you have to be a master to be "worthy" of such a "privilege". the same applies to thinking in terms of "people who are poor deserve to be poor, that's why they are poor, they're bad people". it's called bigotry or elitism and it's best avoided

that's one reason i don't even fully agree with the idea of rewarding contest winners. that's just one way to judge a person and deem them worthy or not - how though do you justify making such a judgement?

blah blah blah and so on. these are non-issues though really. the idea of community is a great one, and these lines of thinking are the reason we suffer from such a decline in community in modern societies.

[Kriminal]

you need to use cars for a proper KvR analogy