Best reverb, for all jobs? (ongoing process)

[Turello]

@codec_spurt: just to understand...
so You use to put reverb on master?
what kind of music?
what parameters regulations? (mix parameter almost "dry" for example?)

Very interesting...

[codec_spurt]

Your objective will be to provide three reverbs (any reverb in the world) and make the source files sound better than these three.

It seems to me that hibidy can upload some examples of what he wants to hear, you can do you best to match them using whatever you like, and then we'll all listen for how close you get. Are you open to that?

Well, I'm up for it, if you were referencing me.

Really, it is just a bit of fun. I maybe didn't explain it very well.

But basically, we shall take the samples provided by stian as he seems to think this would be a good reference point.

Then, with these samples, make them sound better with the three free verbs I referenced. You can then use lexicon or altiverb or waves or whatever to make them sound even better again.

Then say later what is what.

It does need a certain amount of people appraising and voting on what they think sounds good of course. My point is that no one can tell the difference between the most expensive and popular reverbs of our day and the free ones readily available.

Even then it is not scientific.

And I'd still want to buy VVV or Room or whatever. But it's only reverb at the end of the day, and Sean might be able to tell the difference, but you can't!

Or can you?

This takes a certain amount of effort I know, but come on, does no one want to settle this argument?

[codec_spurt]

@codec_spurt: just to understand...
so You use to put reverb on master?
what kind of music?
what parameters regulations? (mix parameter almost "dry" for example?)

Very interesting...

Not sure I understand you full well my good man.

Yes, reverb on the master. I suppose just taking a source file as stian has provided as some kind of standard and then doing your magic.

We would have a few provided by the free reverbs with this on. Then someone would provide Lexicon or Altiverb or Waves or whatever.

They would say - here are the files - what do you think sounds better? And a vote would be taken. And at the end of the day if more people voted for the Lexicon etc. than the free MVerb then we would have a winner.

I admit, it takes a bit of effort, but for pity's sake in the name of academic rigour, this test is not so off the wall or difficult to understand, is it. Especially if you can code a digital reverb.

And then you might say, well the tests... don't prove anything because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then ok. Don't look down on us for using GlaceVerb or whatever.

This isn't difficult really.

[Turello]

@codec_spurt: Thanks Man for answer and forgive my poor english (not my first language)
I (usually on Rock songs) don't use to put Reverb on master (direct or in send but every in single tracks or groups) and this was seems strange to me cause i don't wanna make float el bass or kick but probably sonds good to you... and After all i don't care if a reverb is free or commercial but that he do his dirty work (ergo: what i want!)

[codec_spurt]

Then again, no sane man would be able to differentiate between the reverb on that basic impule.

You need a bit of music - a loop - not scientific but you know.

Does anyone else see the general problems one runs into fairly quickly here on this subject?

Here is a good source file for our purposes:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/860 ... RB-DRY.wav


This is it with a bit of ADVerb:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/860 ... ADVERB.wav

[codec_spurt]

@codec_spurt: Thanks Man for answer and forgive my poor english (not my first language)
I (usually on Rock songs) don't use to put Reverb on master (direct or in send but every in single tracks or groups) and this was seems strange to me cause i don't wanna make float el bass or kick but probably sonds good to you... and After all i don't care if a reverb is free or commercial but that he do his dirty work (ergo: what i want!)

Ok, take the file I put up. It's not a scientific impulse response so..

But it is a very dry loop.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/860 ... RB-DRY.wav

Put some reverb on there. And at the end of the day, statistically, if people think that is better than the free reverbs, then we can say it is worth spending money on reverbs. If not, then, save your cash and use the free reverbs available.

People will still buy from Valhalla coz they offer so much more again, but, for now, can we please concentrate on the sound?

Btw, put up your own dry loop. I think it would be good actually to have a bank of say 10 really really dry loops that can be used. Sorry, but the IR scientific stuff is not really moving me. And this was supposed to be about FUN at the end of the day. Stick up your own dry loop. Then put it up with your fave verb like I did with ADVerb.

When we get a bank of these, we will make a little competition about what is best.

And if you use Lexicon or Altiverb or Waves, then that will all be taken into consideration.


And if you turn around and say, oh well, these things can not be judged, then that will be the end of the argument.

Either these things can be judged or not.

[Turello]

Oh Man, very gentle but i'm not so in confidence with this Roland(ish) sounds, don't know how reverbering this sound and now i'm not with my DAW, my converters, my nearfields etc etc... imo Valhalla make very good reverbs but i use only Shimmer for his modulations on coda\release (i really don't know how explain better: the "air\release sensation")
another interesting "trouble" could be that for years and years all we hear in all productions every the lexicon, TC el, eventide (etc etc) hardware revs and and this imo could accustom badly or spoil the ear to always use the same remedies instead to searching new (creative) ways... o.O

[codec_spurt]

Oh Man, very gentle but i'm not so in confidence with this Roland(ish) sounds, don't know how reverbering this sound and now i'm not with my DAW, my converters, my nearfields etc etc... imo Valhalla make very good reverbs but i use only Shimmer for his modulations on coda\release (i really don't know how explain better: the "air\release sensation")
another interesting "trouble" could be that for years and years all we hear in all productions every the lexicon, TC el, eventide (etc etc) hardware revs and and this imo could accustom badly or spoil the ear to always use the same remedies instead to searching new (creative) ways... o.O

There won't be an answer to this.

I just wanted to stick this in to shut up people that say 'my reverb sounds better than yours'. No it doesn't. You just think it does. Having said that, the Valhalla verbs are a lot of fun. So are the AD verbs.

But, you can get just the same effects with the free verbs. Maybe the paid sound better, but no one so far has been prepared to have it out.

If anything, the paid reverbs sound 20/30 percent better. The free verbs don't sound so bad.

But we all like a nice interface. Again, Valhalla shine through here. It is all very well having a 4 second blooming reverb tail, but not many people do that. If you need to sound like Dead Can Dance then sort it out, otherwise...


I'm just a reverb idiot. I know nothing. But until I see some convincing arguments on this subject...


I provided a raw source file. stian provided an academic source file. You are all free to compare.

The major reverb manufacturers ignore us and are silent. I think that speaks volumes.

[Turello]

(read between the lines)

cannot hide long smoking, love and coughing...

old proverb

here 3:43 AM, very late... Goodnight!

[Uncle E]

Then again, no sane man would be able to differentiate between the reverb on that basic impule.

Let's let the KVR members decide:

I did my best to match Stian's example using RC 24, RC 48, Toraverb, TAL-Reverb 2, Studio One's Mixverb and Room Reverb, and Ozone 5 Reverb. I spent a decent amount of time with each dialing them in to sound as much like his as possible and only stopped when it became clear to me that I wasn't going to get any closer. Check them out:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vchosjlm57pqk ... s.wav?dl=1

I'll be happy to share the results after everyone has had a chance to listen. I had some pleasant surprises and will almost definitely be changing my go-to native reverbs after this. I recommend everyone try this test for yourselves because you'll probably discover some interesting things, just as I did.

[stian]

Let's let the KVR members decide:

I did my best to match Stian's example using RC 24, RC 48, Toraverb, TAL-Reverb 2, Studio One's Mixverb and Room Reverb, and Ozone 5 Reverb. I spent a decent amount of time with each dialing them in to sound as much like his as possible and only stopped when it became clear to me that I wasn't going to get any closer. Check them out:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vchosjlm57pqk ... s.wav?dl=1

I'll be happy to share the results after everyone has had a chance to listen. I had some pleasant surprises and will almost definitely be changing my go-to native reverbs after this. I recommend everyone try this test for yourselves because you'll probably discover some interesting things, just as I did.

Thank you for posting this, Eric! It is definitely one of the more revealing tests you can do to an algorithmic reverb... I noticed that one of them is hybrid (which limits the tweaking possibilities to some extent), though, so that's probably not really a fair comparison.

Best,
Stian

[codec_spurt]

Then again, no sane man would be able to differentiate between the reverb on that basic impule.

Let's let the KVR members decide:

Ok, let's go with that then. Makes sense.

Interesting results.

Thanks for taking the time.

I remember spending an hour or two to get Valhalla Room to sound like Tila with some close spaces. It was pretty much identical in the end, but then you put in a different source and it all changes. Even the algorithms have a life of their own that is brought out by different inputs, if that makes sense. They aren't static at all. They are living, breathing entities just waiting to be tickled in the right way.

I'll see what I can come up with.

[Uncle E]

Thank you for posting this, Eric! It is definitely one of the more revealing tests you can do to an algorithmic reverb... I noticed that one of them is hybrid (which limits the tweaking possibilities to some extent), though, so that's probably not really a fair comparison.

You're right, as good as the hybrid reverb sounds in that example, I could not get it any closer than that to sounding like Verberate and I'm sure you're right that it's due to the limitations of the design. In all fairness, though, it got a lot closer (especially in smoothness) than any of the purely algorithmic reverbs.

[Uncle E]

I remember spending an hour or two to get Valhalla Room to sound like Tila with some close spaces. It was pretty much identical in the end, but then you put in a different source and it all changes. Even the algorithms have a life of their own that is brought out by different inputs, if that makes sense. They aren't static at all. They are living, breathing entities just waiting to be tickled in the right way.

Yes, you're right. However, Stian is also right that the closest we can get to objectively evaluating these things is with impulses.

Anyway, as you heard in those examples, the differences are dramatic and not at all subtle. In all the shootouts I've ever done or participated in, there's never been as clear cut a winner for me as in this one.

[hibidy]

Ah, I think I found a workaround maybe for the live convo verb crashing. Good news because once it works, it really sounds good. I think I said earlier that I didn't like it but I think the crashes are why

Anyways, I'm verbed out I'm tired of testing, crashing, comparing, etc etc

Not that I don't want the thread to continue, but I'm worn out

Let's all stop picking on and bullying hibidy now.

He became the poster boy for a new generation of space-time algorithms, and he didn't like it. Like Elvis!

He needs time. And space.

I can't help feeling we have put our own greatest hopes and dreams, and even fears into his quest. Projected as a summer sun on a cloudy day.

We'll give him time to rest. None of us should feel sorry for him, he has a better Reverb arsenal than the next man. He bit off more than he could chew, but who amongst us has not made that fatal mistake in the pursuit of higher sonic excellence? I know I have.


Alas, poor Hibidy, I knew him well!

Ha!

I'm having a hard time keeping up with what you guys are on about. Listening to examples. Trying to catch up. I've enjoyed my rest