Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[trimph1]

I can smell green onions, or curry, just from seeing a green colour. Other colours do the same thing...sometimes a sound will as well. It can get disconcerting at times but one deals with it.

Myself, I am pretty tolerant of how people talk about these things since having synaesthesia as well as a wife who is an interior designer makes me richer for it.

[wagtunes]

If we all lived according to your rules, do you have any idea how many uses of our speech would be non existent?

Yeah, very scary indeed.

What scares me is the fact you could interpret any of that meaning from what I've said.

None of that was accurate. I didn't mean any of what you've mistakenly interpreted.

I have never once said "nobody should ever use subjective terms or describe their subjective experience or emotions."

Did I say that?

Well that's how it comes across to me. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

When somebody describes a sound as "warm" which is how I perceive some sounds, and you call that person "stupid" for using that term, that's how it comes across to me.

[aciddose]

I never called them stupid for using such a term.

What I said was that they lack the ability to describe what they're attempting to describe using the correct terminology.

If that makes you feel stupid, fine.

[trimph1]

And there are numerous examples of that by him.

[aciddose]

You probably haven't bothered to actually read the thread, but you might be interested in the fact this discussion is rooted in my defense of those using the term "warm".

[wagtunes]

You probably haven't bothered to actually read the thread, but you might be interested in the fact this discussion is rooted in my defense of those using the term "warm".

Then let me ask you this, and yes, unfortunately, I have read this whole insane thread, how would YOU describe the sound of an analog synth in the low bass range or a mid range Moog type lead sound with low pass filter cutoff open about mid way?

To me, that's a "warm" sound. But if you feel that is a bad way to describe such a sound, what word or words would YOU use to describe it?

It's a simple question that I would think would have a very simple answer.

[whyterabbyt]

There was an interesting program on colors on TV a couple of days ago. For instance they explained why red is so important for women, an evolutionary thing going back to gathering when women spent a lot of time judging fruit based on the shade of red.
Our perception of colors is in our genes, so to speak. Red is perceived as a warm color even by people who have no clue of pokers.

Well, even if I believed that were true, since its really just an unfounded assertion (and I dont for a second believe you have any evidence of that whatsoever), I'd like to know which people you'd be talking about who have 'no clue of' fire.

Because you seem to have confused the use of 'pokers' as a common example of an object that gets heated with the fact that the point applies to any sufficiently heated object. Its amazing how you can be so strangely literal in order to support something so figurative.

Given the number of colours of fruit there are, Im not even convinced by the relevance of that, to anything let alone 'warmth'. Or 'perception of colour' in general.

[Mutant]

When you listen to music do you feel anything? Or do you feel as cold and unmoved as the feelings (for lack of a better word) conveyed in your responses to this issue of "warmth" and/or whatever?

I feel pleasure, it makes me happy.
But it doesn't make me feel warm or snappy or even punchy and for sure not metallic, glassy or rubbery.

[fluffy_little_something]

There was an interesting program on colors on TV a couple of days ago. For instance they explained why red is so important for women, an evolutionary thing going back to gathering when women spent a lot of time judging fruit based on the shade of red.
Our perception of colors is in our genes, so to speak. Red is perceived as a warm color even by people who have no clue of pokers.

Well, even if I believed that were true, since its really just an unfounded assertion (and I dont for a second believe you have any evidence of that whatsoever), I'd like to know which people you'd be talking about who have 'no clue of' fire.

Because you seem to have confused the use of 'pokers' as a common example of an object that gets heated with the fact that the point applies to any sufficiently heated object. Its amazing how you can be so strangely literal in order to support something so figurative.

Given the number of colours of fruit there are, Im not even convinced by the relevance of that, to anything let alone 'warmth'. Or 'perception of colour' in general.

The meaning of colors is in our genes, just like it is in the genes of animals, although of course the same color (wavelength to be more precise) may be associated with different feelings in animals. And of course not all eyes see things the way ours do.

You mentioned the poker, not me. It does not matter if it is a poker or lava or whatever. Orange and yellow are considered warm colors by all normal humans. Probably dates back to ancient humans looking at the sun and feeling the heat coming from it at the same time. Of course that can be misleading, the blue part of a flame is hotter than the orange one.
Colors also manipulate our perception of size, orange and brown make us perceive space as smaller, blue does the opposite.

Of course telling fruit apart on the basis of different shades of red has nothing to do with warmth, I just mentioned it because it shows how such things are in our genes. Women can distinguish several times as many shades of red as men can, which helped them tell apart poisonous fruit from good ones, and also to tell how ripe fruit were. They did experiments to back it up.

[IncarnateX]

However "warm" can mean something in a metaphorical sense if there is a widely accepted meaning of what. In this thread there did not seem to be any consensus about it.
Metaphors are not technically precise by definition and thus of limited use if they are left to intuition. I think I would understand what is meant perceptually if some one said a traingle wave sounds "hollow" and a saw "sharp" in contrast but if you use the terms about an entire song I wouldn't be sure what it means at all. I have no idea what warm is in that respect and like others I cannot see it's significance in describing a sound. Is it something distorted, something that signify a varied sound compared to a stable sound, a feeling as proposed (like getting "hot" if you watch porn with a decoded tv signal and only can hear what is going on? - very analog indeed). If it means something it should at least translate into some kind of percpetual definition, so plz give examples or explain. The various uses in this thread suggests there are no obvious consensus. Intuition will not do.

[wagtunes]

When you listen to music do you feel anything? Or do you feel as cold and unmoved as the feelings (for lack of a better word) conveyed in your responses to this issue of "warmth" and/or whatever?

I feel pleasure, it makes me happy.
But it doesn't make me feel warm or snappy or even punchy and for sure not metallic, glassy or rubbery.

Fine, I asked the wrong question.

How does the sound itself sound to you?

For example, when I hear a soft pad in the background of a song depending on the timber of the pad itself it can sound warm, soothing, silky, or even dark if it's a low pad. And yes, I know these terms will have different meanings to different people and different sounds will generate different visions and sensations and yes, I understand that in technical terms none of these actually mean anything universal. But to me and a lot of people that I know, these terms DO mean something.

Now if the tech heads want to call us all stupid or whatever, fine. But it isn't going to change the reality of what normal average everyday people use to describe these sounds.

Thus, when describing synth sounds, we get...

Warm
Metallic
Fuzzy
Dark
Cold
Sharp
Edgy

And a slew of others.

I didn't invent these terms. I wasn't the first one to use them. I won't be the last one to use them.

My point is this. The "robots" on this forum aren't going to change human behavior.

Even if it is irrational and stupid.

[fluffy_little_something]

I think some more words to consider are smooth vs fuzzy. Slick smooth sounds are considered cooler than sounds with more higher frequencies by most people, might have to do with surfaces. Smooth surfaces feel cooler than rough ones.
So the filter cutoff knob alone can already serve as a warmth control

[fmr]

Homosexuality also used to be considered a condition, but that has changed.

Under an astronomical amount of pressure from some pressure groups.
Next time world alcoholics will do the same "we are not sick, we are just different, stop trying to heal us and stop offending us by saying that there is something wrong with us !".

Also if we are so far offtopic, all i need to do to make the thread complete is mention:
HITLER !

OMG, this is becoming completely INSANE

[whyterabbyt]

The meaning of colors is in our genes, just like it is in the genes of animals, although of course the same color (wavelength to be more precise) may be associated with different feelings in animals. And of course not all eyes see things the way ours do.

Which has nothing to do with synaesthesia.

You mentioned the poker, not me.

Well spotted.

It does not matter if it is a poker or lava or whatever.

I know, that's why it was an example.

Probably dates back to ancient humans looking at the sun and feeling the heat coming from it at the same time.

Im glad you got there in the end. Thats exactly my point. In other words, nothing to do with synaesthesia.

Colors also manipulate our perception of size, orange and brown make us perceive space as smaller, blue does the opposite.

Which has nothing to do synaesthesia either.

Of course telling fruit apart on the basis of different shades of red has nothing to do with warmth, I just mentioned it because it shows how such things are in our genes. Women can distinguish several times as many shades of red as men can, which helped them tell apart poisonous fruit from good ones, and also to tell how ripe fruit were. They did experiments to back it up.

[/quote]

And yet again, nothing to do with synaesthesia.

edit : fixed quoteblock issue.

[Mutant]

When you listen to music do you feel anything? Or do you feel as cold and unmoved as the feelings (for lack of a better word) conveyed in your responses to this issue of "warmth" and/or whatever?

I feel pleasure, it makes me happy.
But it doesn't make me feel warm or snappy or even punchy and for sure not metallic, glassy or rubbery.

Fine, I asked the wrong question.

How does the sound itself sound to you?

For example, when I hear a soft pad in the background of a song depending on the timber of the pad itself it can sound warm, soothing, silky, or even dark if it's a low pad. And yes, I know these terms will have different meanings to different people and different sounds will generate different visions and sensations and yes, I understand that in technical terms none of these actually mean anything universal. But to me and a lot of people that I know, these terms DO mean something.

Now if the tech heads want to call us all stupid or whatever, fine. But it isn't going to change the reality of what normal average everyday people use to describe these sounds.

Thus, when describing synth sounds, we get...

Warm
Metallic
Fuzzy
Dark
Cold
Sharp
Edgy

And a slew of others.

I didn't invent these terms. I wasn't the first one to use them. I won't be the last one to use them.

My point is this. The "robots" on this forum aren't going to change human behavior.

Even if it is irrational and stupid.

I know what most of these words mean, i just don't like using them because their meaning is way too wide.

For example if we take a very famous sound like Van Halen's Jump synth.
How does it sound to me ?
It sounds nice and like some kind of synthesized brass section.
Thats all.
But if i wanted to tell someone who never heard that song before so he could copy the patch on his synth, i could describe it as short attack, short release, 70% sustain, slightly detuned 2 saw oscillator brass with short attack pitch modulation envelope, filter set to 1/3 of the knob range, with filter frequency modulated by envelope that also modulates amplifier volume.
It is much more words, but most synth nerds here will know way more about the sound this way while it still doesn't get too deep into details.