Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[Gamma-UT]

What I would actually describe are the properties of the sound, directly, without making comparisons or including any subjectivity.

For example a sound built of three pulses, one detuned -24 semitones, the others offset in opposite directions 33 cents from zero with the linear (no drive) 24db low-pass filter with minimal (<12%) feedback set to 1khz.

This should make a fine example of what I meant when I described the that reason people use terms like "warm" is purely due to some combination of inability and laziness.

"Bitzer," said Thomas Gradgrind. "Your definition of a horse."

"Quadruped. Graminivorous. Forty teeth, namely twenty-four grinders, four eye-teeth, and twelve incisive. Sheds coat in the spring; in marshy countries, sheds hoofs, too. Hoofs hard, but requiring to be shod with iron. Age known by marks in mouth."

"Now girl number twenty," said Mr. Gradgrind. "You know what a horse is."

- Charles Dickens, Hard Times

[zerocrossing]

Here's why I like Diva more than an OB-8. It responds to velocity and aftertouch. It's got higher polyphony. Much higher preset memory. I don't have to deal with cassette memory storage. It's roughly $2300 cheaper. It doesn't take up any space in my studio and I don't have to dust it. Oh wait, I'm starting to sound like

Me. LOL.

That's pretty much how I feel about hardware. Actually, I'm not even that picky about the aftertouch and velocity. In fact, I think hardware sounds great. But the price, space it takes up and repairs just make it not worth it for me.

Haven't heard the Prophet 6 yet. I'm sure it's great.

Haha! I knew you'd bite!

But I'm talking about a $2500 old synth vs a $179 plug in. What I suggest, is be a bit of a bottom feeder and hunt around. I just picked up a Spectral Audio Neptune 2. It sounds glorious. I have no idea why anyone would buy a Model D with this thing floating around, and I got it for $390 shipped. 2 rack space unit, all analog and it does respond to velocity and aftertouch in a limited way, but good enough for me.

Is it better sounding than a plug in? Who knows? I don't care, but I will say that it sounds unlike any plug in I own, and I own a fair amount. I fell in love with it a while ago, but it's hard to get in the USA. Say what you will, but just from a few demos, the sound haunted me. When one came up used I snapped it up. I've been looking for something to replace a Novation Bass Station 2. It's a great synth in it's own right, but it's form factor isn't right for me. The Neptune 2 is a 2u rack so it sits nicely above my ATC-X.

So that's it for me. This topic is over for me simply because there are hardware instruments out there that are key to my music that do not have software equivalents. If you're totally satisfied with what you have, you're a lucky man. I'd love to work that way.

[zerocrossing]

Here's a question for you, analoguesamples909... are you keeping your OB-8? If so, why? I'll take my answer off the air. .

the truth is Ive been thinking about selling my OB8 for a while - because my situation at the moment isn't one where the luxury of a vintage analogue is entirely sensible. Also - Ive been moving away from the 2008 nu disco sound and more towards modern styles...I have to be honest taking my fave OB8 presets and getting the GUI done - it really affected me and changed my relationship with Diva and since I did Ive felt much less like switching it on....doing the tests particularly the one where I did a blind test and gave it to some of the well known analogue enthusiasts on GS who mostly got it wrong affected my thinking also.

So logically all the direction should be towards selling it. But there is a problem. I have a deep emotional attachment to that machine and its great to have a bespoke distinct instrument with character. There is something about playing it and the very subtle movement that is inspiring. People dismiss this aspect, claim confirmation bias or placebo, but I challenge someone to live with a proper vintage analogue and then say that. Diva can deliver the sound conveniently for a great price, but the whole vibe of using the analogue machine is different. A lot of people are musicians, and the feel I think is important. So its not a short answer! I may still sell it we will have to see...I kind of want a JD-Xa

It's funny, I've done "tests" as well, though not with an OB8, of course and for me my results usually drive me back to the analogs. Mostly I just can't find anything that really does distortion and audio rate modulation the way I like it.

I do also understand the "talismanic" nature of an instrument. For some reason I don't bond with synths that way... perhaps because first and foremost I'm a guitar player. Of course there's no real digital guitar option. Don't even say it. There just isn't, but if there were one, I wouldn't use it simply because my guitars and the way I interact with them is as much part of my art as the resulting sound.

As for the Xi... man, I'd hold off on that if I were you. Not that I'm a big fan of the OB8, but I've only heard a handful of demos of the Xi that sounded good to me... and none really sounded great. You could probably fund most of a 12 voice .002 rack with the proceeds of the Oberheim. Now that thing consistently sounds amazing to my old ears.

[zerocrossing]

Then let me ask you this, and yes, unfortunately, I have read this whole insane thread, how would YOU describe the sound of an analog synth in the low bass range or a mid range Moog type lead sound with low pass filter cutoff open about mid way?

I have no idea what you're describing, but I'll go ahead and make some assumptions.

Since the harmonic spectra is focused on odd harmonic partials (pulse) this gives the sound a "hollow" or "wooden" timbre similar to knocking on a resonant wooden box or strings plucked mid-neck.

Now note that when I would use such a term to describe a sound (never) I would only do so by making a direct comparison between the spectral properties of the two sounds.

By "mid-way" I assume you mean approximately 1khz, this is a typical tuning at mid position.

What I would actually describe are the properties of the sound, directly, without making comparisons or including any subjectivity.

For example a sound built of three pulses, one detuned -24 semitones, the others offset in opposite directions 33 cents from zero with the linear (no drive) 24db low-pass filter with minimal (<12%) feedback set to 1khz.

This should make a fine example of what I meant when I described the that reason people use terms like "warm" is purely due to some combination of inability and laziness.

See dude, you're just coming off as a pedantic jerk. When someone says, "Oh, it's a nice sunny day!" do you respond, "Each day the earth receives a more or less equal amount of solar radiation depending on solar flare and sun spot activity. You're coming off as stupid."

"Sunny" is a short cut. No one has the time to describe the exact amount of solar radiation that's currently hitting the earth's surface... especially if you want it broken down in to it's em bands. "My we're having a day with 78% UVA and UVB wavelength propagation though air that's got a .003 particulate level content."

"Warm" is a short cut. Yes, it doesn't describe anything with scientific precision, but you forget, we're not (all) scientists. I told you it's meaning earlier.

[IncarnateX]

you forget, we're not (all) scientists.

Neither is he. I guarantee you. He is full of pseudo scientific bull en masse and is a true master of self-contradictions. In this case he is apparently not even able to distinguish perceptual terms/metaphors from the properties of the physical sources of perception. In addition he even claims that the latter is a more precise description of the "sound", whatever that is supposed to mean in non-perceptual terms. Thus to describe our perception we have to get rid of perceptual terms. Need I say more?

I read aciddose to get entertained, certainly not taught. Anyone does that?

[trimph1]

Well, I would not say he totally is out to lunch when it comes to language/perception and that but good grief he can go on and on.

I really do not know whether he understands the way I experience synesthesia.

So, he is a definite character...

[Robmobius]

I read aciddose to get entertained, certainly not taught. Anyone does that?

Absolutely... He's hilarious.

[IncarnateX]

Well, I would not say he totally is out to lunch when it comes to language/perception,

There can be clear moments here and there but they do not fuse into a coherent whole.

When it comes to coding, making synths and audio production I am sure he has something to teach.

[Lotuzia]

you forget, we're not (all) scientists.

Neither is he. I guarantee you. He is full of pseudo scientific bull en masse and is a true master of self-contradictions ........

I read aciddose to get entertained, certainly not taught. Anyone does that?

Sometimes he makes valid points though. While *taught* might not be the right word, he certainly has some real experience and knowledge to share.

Then he has hard times to agree with almost anybody on almost anything. That generates often endless discussions that more/less turn into dead ends.

Let's say he's warm (even hot) like a .... Jupiter 8 after a few months without putting it off

[pdxindy]

I want a Modal 008

Really? Being a big fan of the.002, I had such high hopes for that one, but all the demos I've heard, so far, have sounded pretty bad to me.

I haven't heard many demos... of the ones I heard, some were kinda boring and some decent, but I've put no stock in them cause none of them were quality recordings. Maybe after getting a chance to play it I wouldn't like it... I just want one based on the specs.

[SWAN808]

mm I beg to differ I think the Xa has potential...but if we are talking Modulus its 008 I think...

[zerocrossing]

mm I beg to differ I think the Xa has potential...but if we are talking Modulus its 008 I think...

You know, I too was excited about the 008, but all the demos, so far, seem to sound terrible to me.

I thought of something. I'm not interested in sound sets, but I'd love a tutorial about your process and what settings you found worked and why others didn't. I'd pay for that. Kind of a "making of" video.

[trimph1]

OB8 and a pair of SEMs....mmmmmmm

[pdxindy]

mm I beg to differ I think the Xa has potential...but if we are talking Modulus its 008 I think...

You know, I too was excited about the 008, but all the demos, so far, seem to sound terrible to me.

I just listened to some demos... they sound good to me... bit plain, but I think that is cause it's new. When the 002 came out it was a bit plain in the demos as well. They got better and better over time... and of course all their demos have no effects at all.

I'm less interested in the 008 mainly cause I'm more interested in the new note per midi channel controllers like the Linnstrument. Being able to play polyphonic expression in realtime adds something more musically unique than the analogue-ness does (IMO) and it is finally being realized.

I wish there was a place to demo the 002 and 008 (when it comes out)

[aciddose]

See dude, you're just coming off as a pedantic jerk. When someone says, "Oh, it's a nice sunny day!" do you respond, "Each day the earth receives a more or less equal amount of solar radiation depending on solar flare and sun spot activity. You're coming off as stupid."

"Sunny" is a short cut.

If someone were to say "it's a warm day today" although the temperature was -30c I'd probably point out "no it isn't."



"Yes it is, you see the sky is red and I consider red a warm color, therefore it is warm today."

"No it isn't, it's 30c below f**king freezing and when the wind comes up my face goes numb. That isn't warm by any relative measure on earth. Perhaps it's warm compared to the f**king moon but you didn't say that."

"If it were a clear blue sky I'd consider it cold, but it is sun-set in the middle of winter on the antarctic coast and I say it is warm today. It is warmer than it was yesterday! Yesterday it was -32!"



"Okay, fine, it is less cold today but it snowed yesterday... and you're saying that through your f**king heavy-duty parka."



"No I'm not. Ole."