Arturia V Collection 6

[fmr]

Using your car analogy (though these are never good as they are physical goods so the variables are different), it's like Lamborgini selling a sports car for £1,000,000, and a Lamborgini go-kart for £50,000, despite using some of the same engineering components, materials and design efficiencies...

How could you say that a regular sports car and a go-kart would be the same product? That's nonsense. Using "some" is not being "THE SAME".

Different products, different price points, different markets.

Same product, different markets, diferent price points. That's what I was objecting.

it's quite common for instance for a company to make a synth that sells for £1.5k, and to make a low cost £600 version, that uses the same code, the same engine, the same chips. Maybe with some features commented out of the code. Efficiencies of manufacture and development, different products, but the same code internally.

Roland D-50, D-10, D-20? Were they THE SAME? You know very well they weren't. Yamaha SY99, SY77, SY55. Were they THE SAME? Again, no, they were not. Yamaha DX7, DX5 and DX1. Were they the same? Again... NOT. And so on.

In all the cases, they are priced accordingly to the different features each one offers, and in neither case one is priced at four or five times the price of the other (even with more features). Again, you failed to stand up to your point.

Anyway, all this is derailing the thread. I will refrain from posting more about this subject. I already explained fully what is my position, and each one will stand with their own, as usual

[akeia]

An IOS app does absolutely nothing for me.

Depending on the individual circumstances you can f.e. do sound design while commuting. Sketch songs on the road...

[Shuffle34]

It’s getting more and more a must-own collection with each version.

[wagtunes]

An IOS app does absolutely nothing for me.

Depending on the individual circumstances you can f.e. do sound design while commuting. Sketch songs on the road...

I don't commute. And when I do get in my car, the last thing I'm going to do is fiddle with an app while I'm trying to keep my eyes on the road.

Make no mistake about it, I have ZERO use for IOS and will always have ZERO use for IOS.

[fmr]

An IOS app does absolutely nothing for me.

Depending on the individual circumstances you can f.e. do sound design while commuting. Sketch songs on the road...

I don't commute. And when I do get in my car, the last thing I'm going to do is fiddle with an app while I'm trying to keep my eyes on the road.

Make no mistake about it, I have ZERO use for IOS and will always have ZERO use for IOS.

Never mind There are people around here pretending they do A LOT with iOS toys, yet I still saw nothing worth mention being published or showed.

The only useful stuff I saw an iPad being used for is when it is used as a controller or programmer for something.

[beely]

Same product, different markets, diferent price points. That's what I was objecting.

Just because you *think* it's the "same product", it isn't. Two different products, that share a significant portion of code. Clearly you can't see this, so I see no value in debating any further, the thread is cluttered enough...

Roland D-50, D-10, D-20? Were they THE SAME? You know very well they weren't. Yamaha SY99, SY77, SY55. Were they THE SAME? Again, no, they were not. Yamaha DX7, DX5 and DX1. Were they the same? Again... NOT. And so on.

Thanks for inventing examples I didn't say to try and poke holes in my argument..

Anyway, all this is derailing the thread. I will refrain from posting more about this subject. I already explained fully what is my position, and each one will stand with their own, as usual

Cool.

[hellomrbike]

Third, you are questioning if the four new instruments (plus Piano V2) worth 200 dollars. But you mentioned Serum which, alone, costs 190 (???). And FM8 costs 150. And Harmor costs 140. So, you still thinh that NONE of the four (plus Synclavier) worths (being absurd) at least HALF of what the others cost? All of the compared synths are excellent synths, but... Think again.

Yes, but, but, but! Nobody pays $150 for FM8. You buy it with complete and it costs something like $6.

True, but not a real argument, because you still have to pay "complete" the price of Komplete, even if you just want FM8. So, no, you can't argue with that.

Fourth, if you are mentioning Synclavier V, it means that you even don't have VC5, which means no Solina either. The Solina V is also a very cherished instrument by me (I always loved the sound of String Ensembles). Neither have the Stage V (emulation of the Rhodes). Or the B-3 V (Hammond).

The thing with those though is that you get a lot of their sound from AnalogLab. Also, while $199 isn't bad, it will almost certainly go on sale. So it doesn't really matter if $199 is a good deal when the inevitable $99 will be a better deal.

Not arguing with that either. If and when it goes on sale , it will be an even better bargain. And you get ALL of the current sounds with Analog Lab 3, which is something amazing - and any user that has at least VC4 registered will get AL3 for free, I think.

What we are discussing now is the current price, compared with the prices of what was considered as alternatives (which I think they even aren't). Everything can go on sale, we can even get it for free in a contest. But that doesn't change the real value of things.

I'm amazed when I see people claiming against 50 dollars for a CMI V and a DX7 V, and then go buy a new synth for 150 (launch price - real price will be even higher) - when the same synth, except for one single feature, was being sold at 30 dollars for iOS. But they are not questioning that

OK, so, ignoring your projections onto me: I ask this question because I'm looking to get into FM and additive synthesis, and I'm wondering whether this is the right place to jump in.

Because we are talking about the introductory sale, let's compare apples-to-apples on prices. It can be reasonably asserted that all of the synths I have listed, barring Serum, have been 30-50% off between holiday sales, and the marketplace here on KVR. Most recently, during Black Friday, the difference would have been more like $50 each vs. $50 (Razor), $75 (FM8), $75 (Harmor). Serum is its own thing, as nothing in the Collection really does wavetable synthesis, so maybe it should be left out of the conversation.

So, it's not a question of absolute value; of course, $200 for four synthesizers is a "good value" going by market rate, but the others I mentioned have been on sale recently for comparable prices, too. My fundamental question is whether the new Arturia emulations sufficiently differentiate themselves in terms of sound or workflow to be worth the money on top of (or in lieu of) digital synthesizers which incorporate more modern designs or ideas. I don't know these things, because I've only dipped my toes into FM / additive enough to know I want to go deeper.

[jdoo]

No dog in the fight over iOS vs. plug-ins… but a clarification, for those who don’t know.

This is to what I was referring when I said earlier you could kind of use iOS instruments with a DAW with some faff.

Still, plugins are far more valuable to me in my day-to-day audio use. I have a few iOS synths, and really, they are just fun novelties for the most part, I don't really use them. Animoog is the only one I like because the note expression and side-to-side finger vibrato is something I want in "real" instruments as I love the expressiveness of it...

Animoog, controlling my OB-6 is something I should take a video of. I think I stumbled onto a vid of someone else doing that, recently. It's really integrating the toy/functionality aspects of iOS into Logic Pro. Frankly, some of the iOS synth capabilities are just ignored, because it's been so difficult / complex to integrate. Nave though... for example... was developed by the same Waldorf team, that developed Quantum. It's incredible timbres are now integrated into my Logic Pro setup. It's a $20 app.. (strapped to a $250 interface, connected to a $700 iPad Pro) If someone already has an iPad though... integration is well worth the PITA involved in getting things configured and working. Not just because adding sounds is pennies on the dollar, but because there are some unique timbres and sound sculping capabilities in some og the iOS music apps..

[akeia]

I don't commute. And when I do get in my car, the last thing I'm going to do is fiddle with an app while I'm trying to keep my eyes on the road.

Some parts of the world do have working public transport and most airlines do allow ipad usage.

Make no mistake about it, I have ZERO use for IOS and will always have ZERO use for IOS.

You have communicated that point unambiguously.

[fmr]

So, it's not a question of absolute value; of course, $200 for four synthesizers is a "good value" going by market rate, but the others I mentioned have been on sale recently for comparable prices, too. My fundamental question is whether the new Arturia emulations sufficiently differentiate themselves in terms of sound or workflow to be worth the money on top of (or in lieu of) digital synthesizers which incorporate more modern designs or ideas. I don't know these things, because I've only dipped my toes into FM / additive enough to know I want to go deeper.

OK. I'd say that, if you are looking for an additive synth. maybe CMI V isn't the right tool. It does additive, but it's not an additive synth like, for example, Razor or Harmor - these two will go deeper on the subject. But Fairlight also does sampling in a way Harmor can't, and Razor doesn't even touch sampling. So, the CMI V currently brings to the table something that, so far, perhaps only Camel Audio Alchemy was doing - and that one is gone, except for Logic users. Nevertheless, CMI V is NOT a new Alchemy - they are completely different beasts.

Regarding FM (and also additive, since any FM synth can also be regarded as an additive synth to some extent) DX7 V is, at least on pair with FM8 - both on top of what can be done currently with FM synthesis. But again, they are completely different beasts, each one with strongs and weaknesses. I'd say that, as a DX7 emulator, DX7 V is quite superior to FM8. As an FM synth, it depends on what you want, since both are very capable, although the engines differ quite from each other. I have both, and I would say - GET BOTH.

[Stefken]

I'm enjoying DX7 ... more than FM8.
I like the combination of FM with subtractive possibilities (filter on each operator).

Try the demo, try the different algorithms and 'deconstruct' some of the presets. You can do that in the scope of the demo.

[Krakatau]

someone mentioned DX1 in this thread !

I totally agree that, after Fairlight CMI and Synclavier, it would be really great to find in the future emulations of these hi-end hardware instruments like VL-1 or DX1

...that were totally unaffordable for most musicians

[beely]

I totally agree that, after Fairlight CMI and Synclavier, it would be really great to find in the future emulations of these hi-end hardware instruments like VL-1 or DX1

Well the main point of the DX1 was the actual hardware - impressive size, great visuals, great keyboard. Take those away, and you have two DX7's with slightly better components (= less noise, slight improvement in audio performance). Or a DX5 with less wood and without the weighted keyboard.

[Krakatau]

I totally agree that, after Fairlight CMI and Synclavier, it would be really great to find in the future emulations of these hi-end hardware instruments like VL-1 or DX1

Well the main point of the DX1 was the actual hardware - impressive size, great visuals, great keyboard. Take those away, and you have two DX7's with slightly better components (= less noise, slight improvement in audio performance). Or a DX5 with less wood and without the weighted keyboard.

i see...

...good to know, i had once the occasion to touch a DX5 so i know what you're talking about all in all, but had no clues about DX1's specifications !

[Ingonator]

I totally agree that, after Fairlight CMI and Synclavier, it would be really great to find in the future emulations of these hi-end hardware instruments like VL-1 or DX1

Well the main point of the DX1 was the actual hardware - impressive size, great visuals, great keyboard. Take those away, and you have two DX7's with slightly better components (= less noise, slight improvement in audio performance). Or a DX5 with less wood and without the weighted keyboard.

DX1 and DX5 more or less seemed to be bi-timbral versions of DX7 but same was also true for the DX7IID and the TX802 rack.
None of those gets remotely close to what is possible with the DX7 V plugin and if you need a layer of two DX7 V sounds you could simply use two instances.

To get the better sound quality in DX7 V you need to use the DAC RES mode at "Modern" and also switch the velocity mode to "Full" for the full 127 range (for those features this should then more or less correspond to a DX7IID).