Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
perfumer
Suspended
170 posts since 4 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:42 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
perfumer wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:59 pm
True, because the 101 is the worst, right? Riiight?!
No, TB303 is the worst sounding synth I have ever owned.
Speechless!

highkoo
KVRAF
3811 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:47 pm

vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 am
why anyone would not use reaktor is beyond my imsginstin :o
That one click is just completely unacceptable.
Sure, there is likely to be a huge undefined number of clicks to immediately follow it, but that first one is bullshit.
ImageImageImageImage

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1306 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:30 am

highkoo wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:47 pm
vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 am
why anyone would not use reaktor is beyond my imsginstin :o
That one click is just completely unacceptable.
Sure, there is likely to be a huge undefined number of clicks to immediately follow it, but that first one is bullshit.
:lol:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17595 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:48 am

BONES wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Of course they are objectively terrible - nobody can argue that when you turn the resonance up, the bottom end drops out of the sound. That's not supposed to happen and is, therefore, objectively terrible filter design/implementation.
You're so funny. :)

Who says what's supposed to happen and what's not supposed to happen? It's working exactly as designed and as such you cannot say it's "objectively terrible". You can say it's "subjectively not usable for what you want to do with it", but nothing more than that. There's no such thing as "objectively terrible filter design". When you design a filter, you are always doing some sort of a tradeoff. There's no perfect filter.

It's like blaming elliptic filters for having too much ripple in the passband. Duh, that's what their design is - you get a sharp rolloff, but you get a tradeoff for that.

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mutantdog
KVRAF
1942 posts since 21 Sep, 2007 from The Infinite Void

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:44 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:51 am
DrEntropy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:44 am
This thread sure lost focus
not by kvr standards.
were still discussing synths and even ni, usually we are waaaaay past that this many pages in :hihi:
Wait until they reveal it's 64-bit only, that's when the real entertainment begins. :wink:

BeeDog
KVRist
141 posts since 31 Jan, 2018

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:51 am

This is somewhat off-topic, but here goes: I have some questions about how NI approach crossgrades and discounts. I really want Massive X and was looking into crossgradingmy way to Komplete (Ultimate) and was wondering the following:

* When NI do 30/50% discounts, do they also lower the prices of crossgrades? I want to crossgrade into Kontakt 6 and from there to the bigger bundles. I believe they don’t do discounts for upgrades, correct?
* Typically, when do NI drop their prices? Summer/BF/Christmas?

Thanks in advance.

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mutantdog
KVRAF
1942 posts since 21 Sep, 2007 from The Infinite Void

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:00 am

Typically, NI Summer Of Sound sale happens throughout June. Crossgrades, upgrades and version updates for all Kompletes are half price, same for Kontakt, Reaktor and any other plugins that have upgrade options. That has been the way for several years now, however that may change although i expect not.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40686 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:08 am

highkoo wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:47 pm
vurt wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 am
why anyone would not use reaktor is beyond my imsginstin :o
That one click is just completely unacceptable.
Sure, there is likely to be a huge undefined number of clicks to immediately follow it, but that first one is bullshit.
i really should let the spellcheck and autocorrect do their jobs :oops:

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liv
KVRian
1424 posts since 26 Feb, 2013 from Sweden

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:44 am

So, what was the VR?

EnGee
KVRAF
5153 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:26 pm

Vitamin R? (as I don't think it requires a Virtual Reality device to use!) :hihi:
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
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Windows 10, Studio One v4 & Maschine v2

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liv
KVRian
1424 posts since 26 Feb, 2013 from Sweden

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:54 pm

Reverb from Valhalla, or vice reversa.

BeeDog
KVRist
141 posts since 31 Jan, 2018

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:27 pm

mutantdog wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:00 am
Typically, NI Summer Of Sound sale happens throughout June. Crossgrades, upgrades and version updates for all Kompletes are half price, same for Kontakt, Reaktor and any other plugins that have upgrade options. That has been the way for several years now, however that may change although i expect not.
Thanks! Appreciated.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40686 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:59 pm

liv wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:44 am
So, what was the VR?
vincenzo ricci
the mobs sound designer.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6339 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:39 pm

What's this talk of multiple clicks to open a reaktor ensemble? Or presets being annoying? I open any Reaktor ensemble with one click (saved template preset in my DAW) and have a nice preset browser by loading it in Komplete Kontrol. Looks like this with one click:
Image
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7572 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive

Post Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:13 pm

Nice if you have that luxury but my host doesn't work like that with plugins. I can do that with the native drums and sampler but for everything else I need to load the instrument before I can access any presets.
EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:48 am
Who says what's supposed to happen and what's not supposed to happen? It's working exactly as designed...
OK, I will talk you through it. The filter is called a Low Pass filter. By definition that means the frequencies above the cutoff frequency should be attenuated. With me so far? Given that, a low-pass filter that also attenuates low frequencies cannot possibly be working as intended, can it? Therefore, any low-pass filter that attenuates the bass when you increase the resonance is not doing the job it is meant to do. At that stage it effectively becomes a sloppy band-pass filter, which is an entirely different kind of filter. By any measure, surely that makes it a bad low-pass filter, doesn't it?

Furthermore, it doesn't matter whether or not it was intentional, only that it is the way it is. For all we know it was the cheapest solution at the time or the only one Moog thought of. After all, it was one of the first synths with a VCF, so what is the chance he got it right on the first attempt?
and as such you cannot say it's "objectively terrible".
Of course I can because we ALL know how a low-pass filter is meant to function and this low-pass filter doesn't function the way a low-pass filter should. Have I said "low-pass" enough times now for it to finally sink in?
You can say it's "subjectively not usable for what you want to do with it", but nothing more than that.
Again, no. I can definitely say that about something like hard sync in the Korg Minilogue, because "hard sync" doesn't carry with it the expectation of leaving the low-end intact, whereas a low-pass filter absolutely carries that expectation.
There's no such thing as "objectively terrible filter design".
Of course there is and if you are not seeing it by now, then you would have to be a complete idiot.
When you design a filter, you are always doing some sort of a tradeoff. There's no perfect filter.
Of course there is and the qualifications are really simple - do what it's supposed to do. e.g. If it is a low-pass filter, make sure it allows all the low frequencies to pass through, all the time. Job done, perfect filter. Once you get that basic requirement done, you can work on giving it character and making it flexible in other ways, etc.
It's like blaming elliptic filters for having too much ripple in the passband. Duh, that's what their design is - you get a sharp rolloff, but you get a tradeoff for that.
Why do you think nobody uses elliptic filters? Could it be because the compromises are more than anyone wants to deal with, which makes them objectively worse than Butterworth or Chebyshev filters? The fact they were designed that way is irrelevant, they are still rubbish compared to other types of filter. Moreover, when every other low-pass filter can do what it's supposed to do but the MiniMoog's cannot, then either everyone else is wrong and we have to change the definition of "low pass filter" or you have to accept that Moog's lowpass filter is rubbish at being a low-pass filter. Those are the only two options available.
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