Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
v1o
KVRian
1498 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:41 pm

Deep Purple wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:12 pm
v1o wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:31 pm
Deep Purple wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:21 pm
v1o wrote:You’re talking about the old Microsoft. The Microsoft of today with the new CEO is embracing open standards and open source development. They’ve been contributing to the Chrome browser engine
Someone more knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the reason they're doing this is because they have decided to replace their own web engine in Edge with the one from Chrome, and the main driver for this is that they can't fix a lot of the web incompatibilities with Edge due to how tightly they tied its engine to Windows.
Nope, the reason they moved from Edge to Chrome is because Google kept deliberately changing code in their sites so that other layout engines would perform worse on benchmarks. Microsoft’s engineers got fed up with this and decided it was better to switch to what Google uses.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18697824
I said someone more knowledgeable, not someone posting a hacker conspiracy theory from a different forum.
Why don’t you think the person who made that post is knowledgeable? His name is Joshua Bakita, he was doing software engineering as an intern at Microsoft at the time. Google has since denied the allegations claiming it was entirely human error on their part.

This is Google’s response “YouTube does not add code designed to defeat optimizations in other browsers, and works quickly to fix bugs when they’re discovered,”
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/181 ... ern-claims
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

imrae
KVRian
623 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:12 pm

v1o wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:27 pm
imrae wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:41 am
Deep Purple wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:41 pm
Microsoft is probably not the best candidate to get involved as they have a history of trying to impose their format on the market without following existing standards.
Yeah, going to Microsoft to get away from Steinberg's controlling behaviour would be :dog:
You’re talking about the old Microsoft. The Microsoft of today with the new CEO is embracing open standards and open source development. They’ve been contributing to the Chrome browser engine and bought Github for example.
"Embracing" sounds about right. Now where have I heard that word before? http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_exte ... extinguish

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Vokbuz
KVRist
63 posts since 24 Aug, 2014

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:50 am

Wow, just wow how conspiracy theorists find conspiracies in everything. Microsoft can’t earn the way it did before, the world has changed. It benefits from open source, it does not need to fight it anymore.

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aciddose
KVRAF
12165 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:06 am

"Open" is not the same as "free". Microsoft is 100% anti-free-software if you look at their actual actions and the licenses they actually use.

They do not use GPLv3 or any other "free" license. They stick to licenses like Apache which allows them to keep the source for applications closed. This allows them to hide functionality in their actual release binaries and prevent others from building matching binaries from source.

Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software.

Only a programmer can talk about this subject because free software isn't a solution for the user, it's a solution for the programmer. Read up on the history of GPL and RMS' motivation to create it when he was unable to fix obvious bugs in closed-source software based upon source-code he was involved in writing himself. His right to access his own work and fix problems in his own software was robbed from him by closed-source software companies and GPL/GNU was his solution.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.

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Vertion
KVRian
566 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:29 am

Deep Purple wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:01 pm
Vertion wrote:God gave me a special role to judge those who misjudge
OK, I have no clue what that means, or how it relates to this thread.
Sure, devs in this market are being duped and forced to take on VST3 and some were trying to rationalize Steinberg's wrongful actions. I saw straight through it.

I am in a situation in my life where my 4 children, wife and I are routinely misjudged given by societal programming. So few actually think for themselves, that it becomes utterly predictable how people will respond, even internally without them unveiling harbored hatred and judgement. Ironically, being so predictable makes them controllable. Like a chess game where you already know every move the opponent will make ahead of time. It has become so routine, it's become very easy to see how people really are and why they act as they do. Steinberg's agenda is utterly predictable. So are many who rationalize for them. We need an open standard, we need more DAW makers here, so we can implement these standards into the market.

BlueprintInc
KVRist
60 posts since 9 Apr, 2017

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:35 am

More standards :smack: More things to care about :smack: Standards that split into smaller groups because every developer thinks he can make the holy grail anyways :smack:

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Vertion
KVRian
566 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:59 am

Excellent article!

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Deep Purple
KVRian
1125 posts since 9 Jan, 2015 from NY, NY

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:00 am

Rivanni wrote:Edge complies to the standards more then any other browser.
Not according to sites that measure browser compliance:

https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
https://caniuse.com/#home
Sweet child in time...

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Deep Purple
KVRian
1125 posts since 9 Jan, 2015 from NY, NY

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:07 am

v1o wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:41 pm
Deep Purple wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:12 pm
v1o wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:31 pm
Deep Purple wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:21 pm
v1o wrote:You’re talking about the old Microsoft. The Microsoft of today with the new CEO is embracing open standards and open source development. They’ve been contributing to the Chrome browser engine
Someone more knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the reason they're doing this is because they have decided to replace their own web engine in Edge with the one from Chrome, and the main driver for this is that they can't fix a lot of the web incompatibilities with Edge due to how tightly they tied its engine to Windows.
Nope, the reason they moved from Edge to Chrome is because Google kept deliberately changing code in their sites so that other layout engines would perform worse on benchmarks. Microsoft’s engineers got fed up with this and decided it was better to switch to what Google uses.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18697824
I said someone more knowledgeable, not someone posting a hacker conspiracy theory from a different forum.
Why don’t you think the person who made that post is knowledgeable? His name is Joshua Bakita, he was doing software engineering as an intern at Microsoft at the time. Google has since denied the allegations claiming it was entirely human error on their part.

This is Google’s response “YouTube does not add code designed to defeat optimizations in other browsers, and works quickly to fix bugs when they’re discovered,”
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/181 ... ern-claims
Being an intern at MS doesn't really qualify someone to be the World's foremost authority on why MS makes its strategic business decisions and whether or not Google is being honest or not when they publicly explain an issue as an error.

But that aside, it seems ludicrous that MS would allow Google to manipulate them into using the Chrome engine so that they can get better test results. Does it really seem likely to you that a multi-billion dollar company would drop their own product in favor of another company's product so that they could get better test scores, a move that is probably going to cost them hundreds of millions of dollars? Just because an intern said that's the way it is?
Sweet child in time...

machinesworking
KVRAF
1582 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 am

Apple developed AU because they and newly acquired Emagic always felt that VST's ran best in Cubase windows than in any other DAW and OS. It's a PITA for developers since it adds another proprietary format, and it's IMO almost certain that a plug in format developed by Microsoft would also be a PITA. Microsoft using some open source in their products does not mean level playing field anti competitive standard implementation. A friend of mine works at Microsoft in the music field. They still 100% have the attitude that they're competing directly with Apple on securing the audio industry into using Windows etc. You simply cannot trust a massive company like MS or Apple to come up with a universal plug in standard that worked equally solidly on both platforms, and even if they did, there would probably be something in there to make sure it was near impossible on Linux.

IMO it would take a concerted effort on the parts of both Apple, Microsoft and all the major DAW developers to come up with a new truly universal platform. So it probably will never happen. Unless VST3 kills all development and the industry plumes into chaos. :hihi:

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Vertion
KVRian
566 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:15 am

machinesworking wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 am
Unless VST3 kills all development and the industry plumes into chaos. :hihi:
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machinesworking
KVRAF
1582 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:10 pm

^^ ouch! :hihi:


Then the best bet is a UN style meeting of the best minds from all parties, and a wholly new format, which will take years to mature... as an end user, yay.... :scared:

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Aloysius
KVRAF
23209 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:29 pm

... as long as we can all contribute more taxes to it, I don't care how long it takes. Taxes can fix anything.
Broccoli is murder.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1582 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

Post Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:18 pm

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:29 pm
... as long as we can all contribute more taxes to it, I don't care how long it takes. Taxes can fix anything.
Just paid, Intuit can bite my d*ck! Site went down and I had to pay directly to the IRS, who already were past the cut off! :tantrum:

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