This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example
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This. Although I think S1 sells just fine on its many other merits. It's just a wasted dev time that could be used for native modulation system, for example
We are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.
To me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.apoclypse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 pmWe are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.
I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.
Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.
Well, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?
I often watch Gregor and he continues to creep me out, whilst simultaneously providing useful information in a concise, non self-serving manner.
Or maybe I've been doing this long enough that I don't need to be nursed like a baby and am happy to do things for myself?
You mean it won't get much attention from the kinds of fucktards who inhabit YouTube. As I said, pretty much every touring band we have played with would be all over the Show Page functionality if they knew about it and/or weren't so rusted onto ProTools. I think you are confusing "modern" with "amateur".
Maybe that's because Presonus staff know their customers and understand their needs? There is a whole world out there beyond bedroom producers and I can see a decent market for what the Show Page has to offer. OTOH, I can see no value in anything Live has to offer, but I am not so narrow-minded as to believe that just because I can't see any value in it that there is not a market for it elsewhere. You need to broaden your horizons, little man.Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.
While Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.wuworld wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:00 amTo me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.apoclypse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 pmWe are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.
I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.
Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.
That's 80% of what people are using them for!BONES wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:28 amWell, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?
That is leaving it to chance. If you're working in a linear / traditional way, you need to come with at least rough apre-conceived idea for the arrangement & progression, capture it and polish a bit. With clip launchers you actually let the arrangement & progression emerge from a collection of often random bits & pieces, by experimenting, using actual randomisation, generative tools.
Imagine you're playing your stuff live in front of audience. You observe their reaction. You see they don't like something - you skip it. You see they like something - you make it loop longer. You noticed they reacted more strongly to an earlier melody than the one you introduced in a break, so you swap it out for the verse on the fly. You see people like some part so you loop it, but to make it more exciting you add a bunch of effects, triggering them via dummy clips. And so on & on...BONES wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:33 amI certainly can't see how it opens up anything to an audience, who would have no idea how what they're hearing was made. Unless by "audience" you mean "market". Even then, I still don't see how it enables anyone to do anything they wouldn't otherwise do a different, often easier way.
As I said, there are things you can do in clip launcher you simply can't do - on-the fly, organically and without audible glitches - on a linear timeline. Obviously in the end the music is linear so you can ultimately get the same final effect, but it's gonna be written in stone and static, whereas its's those moment-to-moment choices and actions that clip launchers let you do that are making all the difference.
As for the F tard. Can't call any youtubers that since you watch it as well. You should look at yourself first before calling anyone that. As for Gregor, I learned a lot from him as well. I recommend the macro tutorial, since you don't know how to use them. You have more an old school approach, with no understanding of modern making techniques. You only like what you started making 15 or 25 years ago.BONES wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:28 amWell, I haven't looked at Live since it was launched 20 years ago or so, until I watched a few YT tutorials yesterday, but I didn't see anything in them that I don't think I could do in S1 if I wanted to, except maybe the random jumping around thing. But how often would you need that?I often watch Gregor and he continues to creep me out, whilst simultaneously providing useful information in a concise, non self-serving manner.Or maybe I've been doing this long enough that I don't need to be nursed like a baby and am happy to do things for myself?You mean it won't get much attention from the kinds of fucktards who inhabit YouTube. As I said, pretty much every touring band we have played with would be all over the Show Page functionality if they knew about it and/or weren't so rusted onto ProTools. I think you are confusing "modern" with "amateur".Maybe that's because Presonus staff know their customers and understand their needs? There is a whole world out there beyond bedroom producers and I can see a decent market for what the Show Page has to offer. OTOH, I can see no value in anything Live has to offer, but I am not so narrow-minded as to believe that just because I can't see any value in it that there is not a market for it elsewhere. You need to broaden your horizons, little man.Presonus staff wanted the show page, so let's see with what they wanted equals sales vs what the market demands.
Nobody uses clip launching or the session view right now. Only the hip hop producers or some edm guys really showcase this. The showpage is going for a unique market that nobody is buying. That's why you barely see any talk about it or people joining Presonus Facebook group seeing if it has similar workflows to Live. You had a 100-200 comments on a thread in Presonus group asking for Presonus to have this like "Ableton with Push" or "Integrate Maschine/KK" or users would ditch S1 until they did. They aren't doing this for the show page. Matter fact its barely any discussion in various studio one users group for the showpage. When they do an update to the showpage, and Ableton does a . update and drops a push 2 standalone let's see what people talk more about. Add FL Studio 21 when it drops, and Maschine updates. Or a new Logic X (which clearly 10.6 was focused on the beatmaker/producer).apoclypse wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:59 amWhile Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.wuworld wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:00 amTo me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.apoclypse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 pmWe are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.
I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.
Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.
Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.
wuworld wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:30 amNobody uses clip launching or the session view right now. Only the hip hop producers or some edm guys really showcase this. The showpage is going for a unique market that nobody is buying. That's why you barely see any talk about it or people joining Presonus Facebook group seeing if it has similar workflows to Live. You had a 100-200 comments on a thread in Presonus group asking for Presonus to have this like "Ableton with Push" or "Integrate Maschine/KK" or users would ditch S1 until they did. They aren't doing this for the show page. Matter fact its barely any discussion in various studio one users group for the showpage. When they do an update to the showpage, and Ableton does a . update and drops a push 2 standalone let's see what people talk more about. Add FL Studio 21 when it drops, and Maschine updates. Or a new Logic X (which clearly 10.6 was focused on the beatmaker/producer).apoclypse wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:59 amWhile Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.wuworld wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:00 amTo me the Atom outshined the release of Studio One 5. This is what people are buying. Show Page won't do much on the general market (small part) if doesn't tie to something music production related. That's why u barely here anybody talking about it.apoclypse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 pmWe are not Presonus we can't say what's a waste of resources for them. I can say that Presonus is first and foremost a hardware company that focuses on live sound (audio interfaces, mixers, monitors etc). So in that context the Show Page makes absolute sense for them because that has always been Presonus' focus as a company. Providing for live musicians (keyboardists, guitarists etc). They may pivot at some point but I just don't think they will anytime soon. Selling high margin devices like ATOM may change their minds in the future.
I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.
Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.
Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.
Could you point me towards Gregor’s Video/article that explains this in a bit more depth please ? Thanks.BONES wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:04 am I think that makes it more important than ever, so we are all ready to get out there when live performances resume next year (after the vaccine has been widely distributed).You mean like scratch pads? They are already there. Or you can use the timeline and turn on the option of having the loop follow your current selection - right-click on the loop icon in the transport bar (I changed the hotkey and I can't remember what the original was). Doing that makes it work exactly like a pattern-based workflow. It's a really cool feature I only discovered recently (thank you, Gregor).
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