Released: Free Synthesizer Odin 2 [Win / Mac / Linux]

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
393 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 am

OK guys, I cannot search forum now due to high load, so I have to ask. In Reaper/Windows 10, on a 2k resolution, the guy (the image elements of it) look extremely low-res. Like if it has been created in 640x480 era. Lovely Synth, but my eyes bleed. Theming isn't possible?

KVRAF
2672 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:56 am

Odin 2 scales to either 100% or 150%. At 150% it nearly fills my 1920x1200 monitor vertically, with sharp graphics. What resolution is your monitor set to?
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KVRist

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260 posts since 10 Apr, 2020

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:08 pm

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 am
OK guys, I cannot search forum now due to high load, so I have to ask. In Reaper/Windows 10, on a 2k resolution, the guy (the image elements of it) look extremely low-res. Like if it has been created in 640x480 era. Lovely Synth, but my eyes bleed. Theming isn't possible?
As of version 2.3.0, the interface should default to 150% scaling.

Are you using a display scale factor inside Windows? It think the images will be upscaled then, which makes everything look blurry.

Perhaps you can share a screenshot?

KVRist
393 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:56 pm

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I use 125% scaling on Windows side. Otherwise a lot of stuff would be too small. My (native) screen res. is 2560x1440.
No matter if Odin is set to 100% or 150%, the scaling artifacts are very well visible. Lots of unsharpness - compared to the vector based fonts which it also uses, e.g. in the preset browser.
I'm by no means saying that disrespectful, please do not misunderstand, it's a fine plugin. Just for comparison: I am dealing with lots of plugins, and many (non vector gfx ones) have to deal with scaling issues more or less, but Odin really looks worst.

Make sure you open this screenshot in separate window/100% zoom level:
Screenshot 2021-10-20 095032.png
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KVRist
490 posts since 12 Mar, 2013 from Russia, Vladivostok

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:39 am

hmm, something wrong a bit
this how it looks at 150% on my screen:
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KVRist
490 posts since 12 Mar, 2013 from Russia, Vladivostok

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am

looks like it also rescaled by Host or OS.

KVRist
393 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:04 am

Kott wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:40 am
looks like it also rescaled by Host or OS.
Not sure.

I know there's the OS side HiDPI compatibility settings in the .exe - but also controllable in Reaper, there's "Advanced UI settings -> HiDPI mode".

Will have to sort out properly... but no matter what I do... if I change it to "DPI unaware", things get bigger in whole Reaper. Main menu unsharp. Odin very unsharp, but bitmap text not as broken.
"DPI aware" (as it is recommended) - Reaper sharp, but Odin as in screenshot.
Last edited by tapiodmitriyevich on Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRist

Topic Starter

260 posts since 10 Apr, 2020

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:07 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:56 pm
No matter if Odin is set to 100% or 150%, the scaling artifacts are very well visible. Lots of unsharpness - compared to the vector based fonts which it also uses, e.g. in the preset browser.
Yikes, 100% agreed.

It appears as if the image interpolation method being used is "nearest neighbour", instead of real upscaling, which should only happen at exactly 100% and 200% OS-scaling.

I just pushed a test version to the Nightly Devel Page. Can you download this version an see if it looks better?

KVRist
393 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:15 am

TheWaveWarden wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:07 am
I just pushed a test version to the Nightly Devel Page. Can you download this version an see if it looks better?
Awesome, now my eyes can survive :-! Bitmap fonts still blurry (I guess you cannot do much?), but not broken any more. Can work with it now.
Screenshot 2021-10-20 111515.png
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KVRist

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260 posts since 10 Apr, 2020

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:23 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:15 am
Awesome, now my eyes can survive :-! Bitmap fonts still blurry (I guess you cannot do much?), but not broken any more. Can work with it now.
Ok, great. It's not a solution though - I have to investigate why the wrong algorithm was used in the first place. I suggest you keep this version though.

Bitmap fonts will be blurry - it's the nature of rescaled pixel based graphics. The entire discussion is part of the reason why the upcoming synth will be 100% vector 8)

KVRist
393 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:29 am

Maybe use different sets of bitmaps internally and for not having to recreate them, upscale the existing bitmaps with Waifu2x algorithm? http://waifu2x.udp.jp/ It has really good results, I once upscaled my Dwarf Fortress tiles with this. EDIT: OK on Github I see your source bitmaps are already quite unsharp, so it wouldn't work...
But hey. Odin 2 already pleases the gods, so the question is, who will be pleased by your next synth? :D

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KVRist

Topic Starter

260 posts since 10 Apr, 2020

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:45 am

Yeah AI upscaling might work for static images, but for animations (knobs) it won't. What I should have done is render everything at 500% to begin with and downscale from there. However I'm unlikely to do it now. Plus, it might not look like it, but rendering the knobs alone in 150% took 3 days on my laptop. But that is probably due to me having no idea about rendering :D

Anyways, I'll look into a solution so the state you're having now is the default at least.

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