[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[musikarldererste]

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

To add insult to injury, because I have an active plan I have to pay over twice as much as someone who didn't have an active plan and buys one now. Surely the cost should have been the same to anyone with an active plan. It is a cynical, calculated cash grab designed specifically to exploit existing customers in my opinion.

Definitely they misjudged and communicated poorly. Hope they work out a solution.

Whats this bit about having to pay over twice as much as someone who didn't have an active plan and buys one now? What did I miss. (asked as an active plan holder )

Ive not double checked the costs but apparently its costs twice as much to buy the add on if you already have an active update plan than if you were to buy an update plan

Oh, right.

I don't think I really mind them offering small sweeteners to encourage people that have not updated to update.

The upgrade plans also go on sale from time to time, so they offer sweeteners to most people at some point.

You can also buy an upgrade plan on sale - and hold it until you want to activate the 12 month of updates.

All sounds pretty reasonable to me.

or you can switch to a better daw
paywig will die quickly its over for them

[_leras]

...The alternative is you pay only for what is released, and this results in much slower release cycles -

However I won't be paying it forward anymore. I will purchase AFTER I see what improvements have been made. This wasn't the case before. They sold a "Subscription". I will ignore that term in the future (since they and I, and some others, see that term differently) and make the purchase just like I do with Live and Reaper. When I see enough improvements to part with the my money I will buy it. No more upfront cash where the seller gets to change the terms of service after taking my money.

That's how it always has been. If we are out of upgrade time we wait and see when it's meets our definition of good value to get the upgrade.

We also then get 12 months of subsequent updates. Sweet.

[_leras]

or you can switch to a better daw
paywig will die quickly its over for them

Well... you're doing your best to make sure that happens, eh?

I don't know why you want to burn them down.

The world is a much better place with teams like Bitwig pushing their vision to make great musical tools.

[sbmongoose]

Well... you're doing your best to make sure that happens, eh?

I don't know why you want to burn them down.

The world is a much better place with teams like Bitwig pushing their vision to make great musical tools.

Ignore everything they say, they are a troll. Been proven several times in this thread.

[UncleAge]

...The alternative is you pay only for what is released, and this results in much slower release cycles -

However I won't be paying it forward anymore. I will purchase AFTER I see what improvements have been made. This wasn't the case before. They sold a "Subscription". I will ignore that term in the future (since they and I, and some others, see that term differently) and make the purchase just like I do with Live and Reaper. When I see enough improvements to part with the my money I will buy it. No more upfront cash where the seller gets to change the terms of service after taking my money.

That's how it always has been. If we are out of upgrade time we wait and see when it's meets our definition of good value to get the upgrade.

We also then get 12 months of subsequent updates. Sweet.

It wasn't that way for me. I payed the sub every year on my purchase anniversary regardless of recent improvements. I payed it forward and they responded with the inclusion of all updates/upgrades to the BWS plan. A precedence was established. They changed. I will have to change in response to that change.

[musikarldererste]

or you can switch to a better daw
paywig will die quickly its over for them

Well... you're doing your best to make sure that happens, eh?

I don't know why you want to burn them down.

The world is a much better place with teams like Bitwig pushing their vision to make great musical tools.

they have no futre anymore
the had their time but do nothing

many youtubers make their point and i am agree with them
nobody will spend money to paywig anymore

[n9research]

I think they will have a change in cash flow after this stunt.

Instead of users renewing in good faith and trust it is now a case of them selling new features to us before people part with money.

This comment succinctly illustrates Bitwig's new dilemma.

Each individual user will, going forward, have to reevaluate their relationship with Bitwig.

My own evaluation is this:

I was happy staying continuously in-plan because, in return, I was delivered 100% of the company's work product.

I have purchased a new Upgrade Plan and Spectral Suite.

But now that it appears this Plan delivers some unknown figure less than 100% of the company's work product, I have not registered the key for the Upgrade Plan and will not do so until I judge that Bitwig have delivered value, in the form of useful updates, equivalent to my outlay. Who knows when that will be?

So, Bitwig (not that I expect them to see this), you have my money for your shiny new addon, but it looks very likely that you will, over the longer term, lose money with this customer.

Particularly if, as most people fear, plan-covered updates are slowed down and/or the headline content is plucked out to sell separately, leaving a predominance of bugfixes for obscure scenarios which most users will never encounter and don't care about.

Also, will Bitwig have the awareness to consider, when choosing and pricing future add-on content, that the value proposition will be heavily degraded for users who have to purchase an Upgrade Plan as well as the price of the addon? I do believe that Bitwig have stated that Addon compatibility is likely to have a dependency on the most current release, so the above does apply.

Perhaps Bitwig have ran all the numbers and are convinced this new model is a winner for them financially. But, I wonder - is "Trust" anywhere to be seen on their balance sheet?

[SLiC]

Whats this bit about having to pay over twice as much as someone who didn't have an active plan and buys one now? What did I miss. (asked as an active plan holder )

I have an active plan, so the upgrade is E79, if you buy a new active plan (normally E169) you can get the new plan + the new add ins for E199, so you are getting the new add ins for E30 more than the upgrade cots. I have an upgrade, so why can't I add the new add ins for E30?

It's like everything Bigwig do is rushed .. just about every realise since 4.3 has been buggy (10 bug fix updates since 4.3), something is slipping.

[pizzatime]

..

[musikarldererste]

One point I have read a few times is that KVR 'hobbyists' are doing all the posting and causing a fuss and people making music for a living are just getting on and buying it or not.
Quite the opposite is true I think, it is very hard to make money from music - when I was working on music full time I lived really frugally, monk like you could say - the yearly update was a big purchase for me but I regarded it as essential and loved using and supporting Bitwig. Now I am in the lucky position where at the minute I could buy the update every week but I am getting more annoyed not less - I genuinely think it is borderline illegal to suddenly change the terms on which people have paid - you can't just randomly say 'add-on's now cost money when we have an active upgrade plan going that included EVERYTHING.
They are actually getting an easy ride despite all the online outcry because they are a cool little company making a great product.. imagine dropping £150 or whatever to Netflix for a year subscription because you like the new box sets then being told after a few months 'sorry the new boxsets are actually add-ons you pay extra for now' - people would be going insane..
Saying they have a cash flow problem was speculation on my part but I was trying to think of any reason why they would do such a bizarre move which would so obviously annoy most people with an active plan.. they have literally killed the trust people had in them in one move - quite good going really. Lets see what happens on the black friday sales or whenever they next do a sale - think they might have a shock. I hope they keep going OK as I love Bitwig but wow, what a mess they have made of this..

this is exactly why so many
people dont like IK mutlimdia
you bought a product and all the addons that you not bought are there but
greyed out

paywig will turn like ik multimedia or adobe
so now is the time to switch or stuck with the current version

[PieBerger]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I said that the communication was far from ideal. I said it from the beginning, but okay.
There is no cheap trick, just read those 50 pages of people arguing about free speech, comparison with Putin and Bitwig (this is actually funny), people payed the devs, not fulfilled promises, the list goes on.

You are deliberately ignoring the overwhelming percentage of people expressing legitimate concerns about this move in these 50 pages.

I see it that he says the reaction has gone OTT.

People have got their pitchforks out wanting Bitwig to suffer and burn down.

That would just leave us with no Bitwig. It would be a terrible outcome.

Now who's being OTT with "people have got their pitchforks out wanting Bitwig to suffer and burn"

Customers were mislead, the overwhelming majority share this feeling and there is convincing evidence to support that they are right to feel this way. People don't like being misled, especially where money is involved and even more so in the midst of a cost of living crisis. I'd argue the reaction is about right.

Bitwig is a business and when businesses mislead their customers it stands to reason that those customers may be cautious about giving them their money for future goods and services. People saying that they will no longer renew update plans on good faith, isn't "wanting Bitwig to suffer and burn", it is simply a reaction to a loss of confidence in Bitwig to deliver on their promises and that is entirely reasonable giving the current circumstances.

[billcarroll]

Ultimately, I believe Bitwig will do the right thing, and they just made a stupid mistake here. Poor communication, not honoring existing agreements and expectations.

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's razor

They aren't bad, just didn't think this one through well at all.

I still have hope for that. I think the people working at Bitwig are good people, and they will soon do a course correction to resolve this.

[SLiC]

Ultimately, I believe Bitwig will do the right thing, and they just made a stupid mistake here. Poor communication, not honoring existing agreements and expectations.

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's razor

They aren't bad, just didn't think this one through well at all.

I still have hope for that. I think the people working at Bitwig are good people, and they will soon do a course correction to resolve this.

I like this post and hope you are correct but being sceptical I wonder if they are waiting to see if they sell enough 'add ons' at $79 to make the trouble worthwhile as if they were going to do/say anything it should have been by now.

In an ideal world they would just refund any purchases (if people had an active plan), but if they have already taken a lot of money (I can't see this personally) it may be hard for them to do!

[Stan Navi]

One point I have read a few times is that KVR 'hobbyists' are doing all the posting and causing a fuss and people making music for a living are just getting on and buying it or not.
Quite the opposite is true I think, it is very hard to make money from music - when I was working on music full time I lived really frugally, monk like you could say - the yearly update was a big purchase for me but I regarded it as essential and loved using and supporting Bitwig. Now I am in the lucky position where at the minute I could buy the update every week but I am getting more annoyed not less - I genuinely think it is borderline illegal to suddenly change the terms on which people have paid - you can't just randomly say 'add-on's now cost money when we have an active upgrade plan going that included EVERYTHING.
They are actually getting an easy ride despite all the online outcry because they are a cool little company making a great product.. imagine dropping £150 or whatever to Netflix for a year subscription because you like the new box sets then being told after a few months 'sorry the new boxsets are actually add-ons you pay extra for now' - people would be going insane..
Saying they have a cash flow problem was speculation on my part but I was trying to think of any reason why they would do such a bizarre move which would so obviously annoy most people with an active plan.. they have literally killed the trust people had in them in one move - quite good going really. Lets see what happens on the black friday sales or whenever they next do a sale - think they might have a shock. I hope they keep going OK as I love Bitwig but wow, what a mess they have made of this..

this is exactly why so many
people dont like IK mutlimdia
you bought a product and all the addons that you not bought are there but
greyed out

paywig will turn like ik multimedia or adobe
so now is the time to switch or stuck with the current version

So go switch to Reaper, and go whining in their forum.
What's the problem?

[musikarldererste]

Ultimately, I believe Bitwig will do the right thing, and they just made a stupid mistake here. Poor communication, not honoring existing agreements and expectations.

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's razor

They aren't bad, just didn't think this one through well at all.

I still have hope for that. I think the people working at Bitwig are good people, and they will soon do a course correction to resolve this.

paywig will do nothing
i hate those fanboys
so many videos on youtube and still ignored
f**k paywig i will drive to berlin and piss on their windows