Mulab under the hood

[robert_p]

(...)

Sure, we can move from point A to B by flying a plane, driving a car or riding a horse - the choice may depend on the distance and time available.

P.S. Hainbach also has a rather specific approach to creating music, but producing this type of equipment nowadays wouldn't make sense from a commercial point of view.

[rickpress]

Maybe Jo should just tell people to use a bridge like Carla (God plugin on Linux and available for Mac / Windows too) or Element from Kushview instead and focus fully on developing the other side of Mulab. The reality is we already can use VST3 easily enough with a bridge / rack plugin. I'm not sure how well it works in MuLab Plugin as I only own MuLab App but it seems to work fine. Lots of people still have 32 bit plugins that need a bridge to use in a 64 bit daw and not every daw supports bridging natively although some (Mixcraft / Reaper etc) do.

Much better if Jo keeps making cool new musical stuff than worrying about the bridge when there is a solution already. Personally I got the DAW for it's portability and for the ability to run it off a USB and also for the later when I buy it plugin version. Would much rather we get MIDI improvements, more MUX modules and more musical stuff than VST3 when in reality Carla can just sort that out.

Much rather we get 9.1 9.2 9.3 updates with new modules. It's more fun. If VST3 isn't a massive problem to code it would be cool but if not it's not an issue as there is a workaround.

[liquidsound]

The limitations are found in all applications and plugins are live-savers.

A music application without the ability to use plugins just doesn't make any logical sense

I have seven standalone desktop applications for composing without plugins, and/or without midi.
Each has a unique "logic" and is a source of endless discovery.

- With one, you paint with colours to compose in micro-tonal sounds beyond the limits of MIDI.
- In a second, users control a touchscreen of sample players to change layers, speed and direction.
- A third is like an arranger workstation keyboard, adding harmony and allowing modulation.

Is it possible for MuLab to also become much more fun and creative than it is now?
Some users cannot imagine how, but our FRs + Jo's genius = real possibilities . . .

My main tools are Serum, Diva, Omnisphere, Valhalla and FabFilter.
So…

I use Ableton, Bitwig but MuLab is the one I use for really creative immersion.

I can’t see how you can reproduce those amazing plugins or leave them behind.

[Michael L]

Some users cannot imagine how, but our FRs + Jo's genius = real possibilities . . .

I can’t see how you can reproduce those amazing plugins or leave them behind.

It is difficult to see a DAW as other than a plugin host.
That is why I gave examples of some apps.
Could MuLab be uniquely better?
Are plugins an obstacle?
Useful questions.

[liquidsound]

Well… originally we used hardware and tapes and now we moved to plugins and DAWs.

Not written in stones but in today’s world who’s out there making electronic music without third party plugins?
Closing that door would certainly restrict the expansion of the business model envisioned at the very start.
A very careful re-Vision is in order and should to not be based, for sure, on KVR alone.

But… everything is possible…. and Jo is the one shaping and manifesting his world, and ultimately, that’s what it should be.

Same here

[sl23]

Limitations inspire creativity, there's no doubt of that.

But if limitation is what you want, use hardware.

[whyterabbyt]

Limitations inspire creativity, there's no doubt of that.

If I specifically want limitations, I prefer to decide them for myself, rather than have them inflicted on me. (And in terms of tool/equipment choices, its not exactly hard to stick to a subset of a broader range of tools for as long as is necessary to be sufficiently creative.)

'Dont use plugins' is a choice. 'Cant use plugins' isnt.

Not convinced that creativity is increased for the latter case over the former. Im certainly not convinced creativity stays increased if you're faced with the same limitations all the time. Quite the opposite, IMO.

[sl23]

Exactly why I don't want to lose vst support!

[sl23]

You're right about limitations, but I didn't say to use it permanently. Just that if limitation inspired creativity is desired, try using hardware. It works. I have a few hardware synths and love the limitations they have. But, when I choose not to have limitations I move the hardware creation to MuLab.

[dayvyg]

I think you'd probably kill off a good deal of your userbase if you stopped supporting plugins. You could create a poll and let people vote on no plugin support, support for vst3, support for clap etc. and get some actual numbers.

My money is on clap for the future. There has been a lot of grumbling by various developers about Steinberg and vst2/vst3. It also just makes sense for developers to embrace something that is open and well documented (not to mention the other benefits). Reaper has implemented it already and there seems to be a fair bit of interest by other developers. It might even make sense to support clap first and just hold off a bit on vst3. I mean we can load vst3 plugins via a wrapper anyway.

d.

[Michael L]

You could create a poll and let people vote on no plugin support, support for vst3, support for clap etc. and get some actual numbers.

Yes, but the poll would need to include other FRs so we can see the tradeoffs:

- FRs we would gain if we lose plugins
- FRs we would lose if we gain plugins

A FR would be "lost" if it could not be implemented in a reasonable time.
The previous poll in 2015 included so many great FRs that it took seven years.

Of course, the result (M9) is far beyond what any user could imagine then.
That is why I support whatever enables Jo's creativity!

[dayvyg]

I think plugin support is a rather divisive topic and one that could potentially change Mulab's customer base substantially. It is up to Jo whether a poll is worthwhile or not.

[robert_p]

A FR would be "lost" if it could not be implemented in a reasonable time.
The previous poll in 2015 included so many great FRs that it took seven years.

Adding native equivalents of our favourite plugins would take more than 100 years.

[liquidsound]

Limitations inspire creativity, there's no doubt of that.

'Dont use plugins' is a choice. 'Cant use plugins' isnt.

Not convinced that creativity is increased for the latter case over the former.

Perfect!

[sl23]

That's not what I was saying! But that's the trouble with forums, there's always someone who gets the wrong idea!

My position was made very clear, I don't support removal of plugins.