Bitwig 5 is up

[wilkins_micawber]

A workaround to not being able to automate points on the Bitwig MSEG is to tie a knob to the amount of MSEG1 and MSEG2. When MSEG1 goes down, MSEG2 goes up. This is the same as if you automated the individual points of MSEG1 towards those of MSG2. I think it would be super nice to be able to do this for more than just two MSEGs with one knob. Is there a way to do this without having to resort to the grid?

Having one knob move through more than one MSEG is shown in the below image for the grid:

[liquidsound]

Fixed…

Only the unreasonable want it all and now

I know…. It’s so toxic

[pdxindy]

A workaround to not being able to automate points on the Bitwig MSEG is to tie a knob to the amount of MSEG1 and MSEG2.

I would approach it a different way. I would use 2 MSEG's and one is the main modulator and the other modulates the strength of the first.

And of course once u-he releases their new spline editor, it will be easy to craft all sorts of MSEG type wavetables that will morph. Export as wavetable into Bitwig then it can load in the Wavetable LFO.

[SamDi]

Here’s the deal though, some of us came from DP, Logic, Cubase etc. not FL or Serato. What this means is I have a whole different set of features/expectations as to what a DAW should do. Simply put MSEG was a top three request, and Bitwig answered it. The problem is they can’t answer all of them, it’s not Reaper, it’s not going to have scripts you can use to do the thing you want. No DAW even Reaper covers all the bases, so someone will be disappointed, and that person will of course claim they speak for everyone.

Yes, for sure I do not speak for everyone. What I mentioned, was rather related to aquire new customer, not that I personally want it. I would wish (maybe like you) rather some "pro"-features, means to easily manage track-views, track-sets, fx-chains, marker-sets and what-not.

I don't understand how people can mention that Bitwig doesn't listen. Lack of MSEG was the running joke for over 5 years. Now they implemented MSEG thoroughly in v5 in many different forms, and people still have the audacity to say that they don't listen. Truly unbelievable...

Maybe because of that...

But on the other side, it should be task of each developer to listen to his customers and be aware, what is needed. On the axis "get completely lost, because just fulfilling customer requests" <-> "go autistically your own way and don't listen to anybody" there is a golden middle way.

That 'should' belongs to you. You can say you think it should be this way or that way a thousand times, and that does not make it so. There is no one right way to do it.

Yes, that's just my opinion, each developer is free not to follow it.

As for listening to customers, that is not a black and white thing. There will be user suggestions that a developer is open to and user suggestions they are not open to because they do not fit the developers vision.

I thought, I wrote it similar like that:

...On the axis "get completely lost, because just fulfilling customer requests" <-> "go autistically your own way and don't listen to anybody" there is a golden middle way ...

I don't think it matters how many times you explain yourself, rationalize why your ideas could benefit the developer, and so on, I don't believe you will ever succeed in diverting the Bitwig devs from their vision.

Oh did I explain myself multiple times? Wasn't aware. I don't want to divert anybody from anything. But from which vision do you speak? Independently from what that should be ,my OPINION (who nobody needs to respect or follow) is, that they are much too slow to implement their vision (see MSEG for 5 years request) and sooner or later they are going to run into problems to fund themselves, if they don't open up new target groups with new features. And also my opinion is that with a 30-people team, development velocity is way too slow.

I mean, I have the opportunity to adapt my payments to this velocity, but at the end it's annoying, that they so slowly move forward, because in general i like BW also very much, that's the reason, why I want, that they don't crash it.

[Buckster]

The MSEGs are fantastic them plus CLAP and can get some.very interesting sounds

UHE CLAP plugins (ones I've tried) having some.issues though works fine until you save and exit

When you then reopen the project the UHE VSTs won't open they give a Bitwig error not able.to initialise or something

Not sure if all CLAP plugins or the UHE ones

[muzicxs]

Maybe because of that...

So what? They implemented a long standing request, which means that they do listen.

If you expect them to make your every wish come through on the spot, then you shouldn't purchase a license. You should purchase the company.

[SamDi]

Maybe because of that...

So what? They implemented a long standing request, which means that they do listen.

If you expect them to make your every wish come through on the spot, then you shouldn't purchase a license. You should purchase the company.

Between on the spot and 5 years, there's something in the middle, I would say. Yes indeed, when something starts to develop as a "running gag", it means that it was somehow too long in the room.

[SamDi]

Maybe because of that...

So what? They implemented a long standing request, which means that they do listen.

If you expect them to make your every wish come through on the spot, then you shouldn't purchase a license. You should purchase the company.

..do you mean, they would sell to me? Maybe I can convince some here to start a collective acquisition and then steer feature development

[muzicxs]

it means that it was somehow too long in the room.

No, that's your interpretation.

..do you mean, they would sell to me?

You would not fit the bill. Lack of imagination, creativity and vision would be mentioned in the rejection letter

[_leras]

In BW some things are near to perfect especially in the workflow, so making changes then, just leads to making things worse. On the other side, in depth many things seem half-cooked. Working with audio items, changing onsets and stretching and that stuff is kind of PITA. I cannot even tell you why, but sometimes it seems that mouse cursor doesn't change accordingly and does the wrong things. Maybe it was because I was on 4.2.5. Now I renewed, so need to check if there are some fixes. Also drawing automation is not nice to work with. These are things customers are complaining since years.

It's not that I would drop BW, I use it really as a main DAW. But slow velocity of development and not improving the DAW, lead me to buy plan last year in June and just now activating it, because I do pay for improvements on the DAW. The n-th esoteric MIDI-FX or "+"-FX is not worth for me keeping the plan continuously active. And I guess many customers are doing so. If they want to earn money, expand their user-base, they need to deliver what the crowd needs, not what a nerd does think out in his home-office chamber.

IMHO if they have at all the wish to grow, they should emphasize more on DJ, performing and sample playing stuff, means make working with samples and audio easier to fish in the ballpark of FL Studio, Ableton, Serato and so on. Small example, I just tried it out: when I am working on a clip cut the audio event under it in peaces, why can't I drag an audio event slice directly into a new lane, that it automatically creates a new track with sampler and the cutted sample in it? Instead I need to drag the audio event to a track, that it gets a clip, then I need to create a track manually with sampler, and then first I can drag the clip into the sampler. In Ableton and FL Studio such things go much faster.

I have to say I fully agree with this. Bitwig is sooo good with some of things its just an absolute joy.

Something's though, you kinda need to know the trick of how to do it. I also get that unpredictable cursor btw!

I also agree there are some areas, like audio editing, where they can make lots of improvements.

I'm totally fine if not all new things align with exactly what I want, as the workflow is soo good. But I do think focusing on improving some weaknesses is as important as adding new things.

[cel4145]

Bitwig has their own vision and development path and update after update they demonstrate it. V5 is yet another quintessential Bitwig update. And yet some people doggedly hold on to the magical fantasy that Bitwig will suddenly become a different company, with a different vision and do what they want if they just keep hoping. Seems like a remote hope to me... pun intended.

Okay. Well, what is that "vision?"

You can definitely find marketing prose on the website describing the current state of the software. But I have yet to see a clear, long-term vision articulated. And in fact, as people regularly point out here, they don't even put out even basic development roadmaps.

I suspect Bitwig's development is driven by what the developers feel like revising or creating. An open source like "scratch your own itch" strategy. More so than an actual vision or plan.

Otherwise, they would be able to articulate some goals they have for say the next two years. They would have been able to say not long after the 4.0 release, that they hope to offer some significant modulation improvements for 5.0.

Meanwhile, those of you suggesting that if someone is not happy with what Bitwig develops, they should go somewhere else. Well that's a pretty short-sighted point of view. Because I bet if everyone left who had hopes for Bitwig to refine existing standard DAW features and add some new ones, Bitwig would probably have to fire at least half of their development team.

[musikarldererste]

all opinions are welcome , nobody must agree with other arguments and vice versa
i can understand the criticism
so why blame people when they have other opinion ? its okay

[pdxindy]

Okay. Well, what is that "vision?"

You can definitely find marketing prose on the website describing the current state of the software. But I have yet to see a clear, long-term vision articulated.

It doesn't need to be articulated... just look at their updates. Go back say to v3.0. I would say their focus and development is pretty consistent. V5 is another quintessential Bitwig update.

Anyway, I've used up my interest in talking about such things. A significant number of the posters here at KVR are more interested in discussing the business plan, how they think Bitwig should develop, the pricing model, DAW vs DAW comparisons and so on.

I really am most interested to talk about the software and that just hardly happens here on KVR. That's okay. I'm satisfying that interest elsewhere.

[musikarldererste]

the remote controls are a big game changer
you can do a lot with that for example = we now have VCA- Fader

[SamDi]

Anyway, I've used up my interest in talking about such things. A significant number of the posters here at KVR are more interested in discussing the business plan, how they think Bitwig should develop, the pricing model, DAW vs DAW comparisons and so on.

I really am most interested to talk about the software and that just hardly happens here on KVR. That's okay. I'm satisfying that interest elsewhere.

You are completely right! We should stop ranting and come back to technical discussions, which would be much more interesting at the end!