Bitwig 5 is up

[Echoes in the Attic]

Technically I want snapshots now.

[_leras]

I suspect Bitwig's development is driven by what the developers feel like revising or creating. An open source like "scratch your own itch" strategy. More so than an actual vision or plan.

I think thats a little bit unfair. I think they've had a reasonably consistent focus. GUI and daw, modulations, fx, instruments, grid.

A bunch of stuff goes under the radar e.g. updated FX. But are needed to remain competitive in terms of specs.

And Bitwig users are quite varied and really want different things it seems. Even when they give what people want, some aren't happy.

But I think I think they just made a great update. Hopefully the 5.1 to 5.3 updates will also have things to look fwd to.

[cel4145]

I think thats a little bit unfair. I think they've had a reasonably consistent focus. GUI and daw, modulations, fx, instruments, grid.

It's neither fair nor unfair. A development process which is largely emergent is not a bad way to stimulate innovation. Versus top-down, management driven development.

And you got to admit. That spectral suite looks like somebody's or some team's pet project.

Anyway, my point is that people want to attest to Bitwig's development "vision," because they like the direction that Bitwig has taken. It's very easy to see patterns in choices, even though there was no overall vision guiding their creation.

[machinesworking]

I think thats a little bit unfair. I think they've had a reasonably consistent focus. GUI and daw, modulations, fx, instruments, grid.

It's neither fair nor unfair. A development process which is largely emergent is not a bad way to stimulate innovation. Versus top-down, management driven development.

And you got to admit. That spectral suite looks like somebody's or some team's pet project.

Anyway, my point is that people want to attest to Bitwig's development "vision," because they like the direction that Bitwig has taken. It's very easy to see patterns in choices, even though there was no all overall vision guiding their creation.

All of what you're saying here is pure speculation, I think it would be wise to keep that in mind. You seem pretty convinced you're right, but personally I see a pretty clear vision of what a modern performance DAW can do. We're looking at MSEG, refinements to the Launcher, and an updated browser, none of those strike me as pet projects. Remember originally the Spectral Suite was going to be an add on, another revenue stream, so even there that points away from pet projects.

[Jac459]

If spectral suite is a pet project it is a gorilla pet project. This is the single best added feature of 2022 in my view.

As an IT manager of large development teams in a bank, I would love to have emerging design/build done this way...

[machinesworking]

I don't think it matters how many times you explain yourself, rationalize why your ideas could benefit the developer, and so on, I don't believe you will ever succeed in diverting the Bitwig devs from their vision.

Oh did I explain myself multiple times? Wasn't aware. I don't want to divert anybody from anything. But from which vision do you speak? Independently from what that should be ,my OPINION (who nobody needs to respect or follow) is, that they are much too slow to implement their vision (see MSEG for 5 years request) and sooner or later they are going to run into problems to fund themselves, if they don't open up new target groups with new features. And also my opinion is that with a 30-people team, development velocity is way too slow.

I mean, I have the opportunity to adapt my payments to this velocity, but at the end it's annoying, that they so slowly move forward, because in general i like BW also very much, that's the reason, why I want, that they don't crash it.

Not my quote but it isn't a bad quote whomever said it.
Mostly like I already mentioned I think some developers have their own vision of what that DAW is, and they move it in that direction. We have no idea how hard it was to implement MSEG, especially to the extent they did, so I'm not interested in arguing about whether they did it in a timely manor, it's not our call. You can always vote with your wallet.

It's more interesting to me to talk about what global modulation does, and how that can be used etc. Discussing their business philosophy and tone policing gets old.

[wilkins_micawber]

A workaround to not being able to automate points on the Bitwig MSEG is to tie a knob to the amount of MSEG1 and MSEG2. When MSEG1 goes down, MSEG2 goes up. This is the same as if you automated the individual points of MSEG1 towards those of MSG2. I think it would be super nice to be able to do this for more than just two MSEGs with one knob. Is there a way to do this without having to resort to the grid?

Here's the answer to this, if anyone's interested (time 5:11)
You can use the curves modulator as a transfer function for other modulators without having to use the grid

[cel4145]

All of what you're saying here is pure speculation, I think it would be wise to keep that in mind....

Why do you think you need to remind me? My point has been that those who claim to know the vision for Bitwig, don't know that there is even a vision.

You seem pretty convinced you're right

I said I "suspect." So you are convinced that you know how convinced I am that I'm right. lol

but personally I see a pretty clear vision of what a modern performance DAW can do.

They could have skipped the MSEG functionality and the expansion of modulation, and done something else instead. And Bitwig could still be called "what a modern performance DAW can do"

We're looking at MSEG, refinements to the Launcher, and an updated browser, none of those strike me as pet projects. Remember originally the Spectral Suite was going to be an add on, another revenue stream, so even there that points away from pet projects.

Nice strawman. I didn't say those were all pet projects. But since you are convinced you know my conviction, you know what Bitwig's development vision is without actual evidence from Bitwig, I don't think I'm going to change your mind because it seems to operate on a lot of assumptions.

[machinesworking]

All of what you're saying here is pure speculation, I think it would be wise to keep that in mind....

Why do you think you need to remind me? My point has been that those who claim to know the vision for Bitwig, don't know that there is even a vision.

You seem pretty convinced you're right

I said I "suspect." So you are convinced that you know how convinced I am that I'm right. lol

but personally I see a pretty clear vision of what a modern performance DAW can do.

They could have skipped the MSEG functionality and the expansion of modulation, and done something else instead. And Bitwig could still be called "what a modern performance DAW can do"

We're looking at MSEG, refinements to the Launcher, and an updated browser, none of those strike me as pet projects. Remember originally the Spectral Suite was going to be an add on, another revenue stream, so even there that points away from pet projects.

Nice strawman. I didn't say those were all pet projects. But since you are convinced you know my conviction, you know what Bitwig's development vision is without actual evidence from Bitwig, I don't think I'm going to change your mind because it seems to operate on a lot of assumptions.

I think sometimes men on the internet spend too much time arguing about things that 100% do not matter. so you do you, I'm not wasting my time defending my observation, you have more than insinuated that Bitwig has no vision, that cannot be denied.

You saying I'm assuming you're assuming, is a circle of redundancy.

[_leras]

All of what you're saying here is pure speculation, I think it would be wise to keep that in mind. You seem pretty convinced you're right, but personally I see a pretty clear vision of what a modern performance DAW can do. We're looking at MSEG, refinements to the Launcher, and an updated browser, none of those strike me as pet projects. Remember originally the Spectral Suite was going to be an add on, another revenue stream, so even there that points away from pet projects.

And don't forget the new global modulations.

These add up to a really pretty powerful set of creative and mixing tools.

I'm normally a bit slow to pick up new versions and wait for stability, but I'm pretty sure I'll move to 5 when it's out of beta, just for what this global modulation can add for mixing..

Other things seem to fly under the radar, the convolution reverb and delay+ are really excellent especially the feedback loop in delay+. To me grid stuff flys under the radar but is steadily being improved.

It's definitely positive moves and changes.

[BobDog]

A workaround to not being able to automate points on the Bitwig MSEG is to tie a knob to the amount of MSEG1 and MSEG2. When MSEG1 goes down, MSEG2 goes up. This is the same as if you automated the individual points of MSEG1 towards those of MSG2. I think it would be super nice to be able to do this for more than just two MSEGs with one knob. Is there a way to do this without having to resort to the grid?

Here's the answer to this, if anyone's interested (time 5:11)
You can use the curves modulator as a transfer function for other modulators without having to use the grid

That's a pretty useful video, thanks.

[zengel]

I really am most interested to talk about the software and that just hardly happens here on KVR. That's okay. I'm satisfying that interest elsewhere.

I Agree i just came back because of the V5 hype to see what people think/tested/review etc .... oh my... that's sad how a few from the community shouting loud their desaprobation (to be polite) .

I didn't came back since a moment and i left also because of those "dark" waves peoples .
Not that i am afraid but because there are lot's of good people, positive/competent who are more interesting to talk with. And really i have nothing to say more against those people . Everybody have his way to express his self . I am just not interested to talk with those who are just negative . Why wasting time ? life is short .
And yes it really exist forum where people are kind .
Anyway , great update from Bitwig ! I support them since the beginning and i really enjoy seeing such incredible guys creating such incredible tool for us .
Thanks Bitwig Team !!!!

[n0j0e]

New browser is cluttered and not user friendly at all. My old collections are there - but they're all empty. There is no (obvious) way to add new items to them. New "smart" collections are actually filters.
How to create list/collection/folder/whatever with e.g. "only 10 VSTis out of 110 installed"?

The browser is going into the complete wrong direction IMHO. What needed me one or two clicks in version 4 does now take the double click amount. I could freely filter for vendur or category with one click. Now I need to choose filter type first for selecting the according item.

And who had this f***king idea, that when I insert an instrument, that I want to see all these crappy BW presets? It fells like bloatware and I found until now no chance to set this behavior off. I don't want to see any preset, when I want to choose a plugin.

Furthermore now any smartcollection is no text anymore but all the same icon.
Who from product management does think, that this will be any improvement?

I think, I should write them a feedback email to state, that I am not happy at all with this

Filter like you want. Right click on the left icon bar and Save Smart Collection... so i can quick select my filtered content. Or right click anywhere and select Remember selecting filters when adding new track. For me it is also ok then.

[pdxindy]

Beta 3 is up!

[pdxindy]

Changes in Bitwig Studio 5, Beta 3

IMPROVEMENTS

Browser: The ordering of search results has been improved, with direct name matches coming first, then consistently sorting other results by kind (device, preset, etc.)
Templates are now listed in side-browser, and are available via a Templates source (under All Sources > by Kind)
FIXES

Collections weren't showing (or accepting new) VSTs [32044]
Fixed crash when switching a Polymer module that is targeted by a project-level modulator [31812]
Some large projects could crash the audio engine when loading [31352]
Users can't save project after deleting modulator in project device [32043]
Segments Grid/Polymer module & modulator: Fixed inconsistencies in release behavior in bipolar mode, etc.
"Add automation lane" context menu entry was missing for project-level modulators [32054]
Fixed crash when copying modulators at the track- or project-level [32018] [32021]
Fixed crash when choosing template to use as default template, or when using the New from Template… action [32003] [32053]
Dropdown choosers on remote control pages were not displaying the selected value [32046]
Transfer Grid module: Would sometimes not allow other modules to come near it
Longer sound package names were not centered in browsers [31921]
Slice in Place dialog buttons looked broken [32045]
Track inspectors were too wide in non-English localizations
u-he CLAP plug-ins: Fixed a crash when using right-click to Init
Windows CLAP plug-ins: Were sometimes not reloading
VST2: Several plug-ins now work again in version 5 [32042]
Nektar controller extensions: were often crashing instantly [32009]