No. No it is not. These problems have all been solved. It's not anyone's fault but your own that you don't keep up on the news. What I will say, is that you are about 10 years behind.
Do Linux users tend to be somewhat paranoid?
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
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- KVRian
- 1111 posts since 19 Apr, 2004
Lol Thanks, the older I get the less anything really bothers meaudiojunkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:26 pmYou are a better man than me. I allow myself to get riled up by trolls. I like your way of responding and aspire to becoming more that way.![]()
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
But I must be paranoid? I stopped using C/R and the likes with the Reaktor4 update that I got free because I bought a lil app called Sync Modular in around 1999 or so v0.49 cost $49.
Only other C/R I had was the update to Gigastudio from sampler. Way back then I said this is crazy and bowed out from purchasing any more. Last I heard Reaktor4 can no longer be autherized even though NI still exsists. Too much other software out there to deal with C/R.
In defense of Tiles, I believe he has 20 year old software that still runs great on Windows.
I have Sync Modular installed on Linux\WINE runs great plugins and all.
- KVRist
- 68 posts since 24 Feb, 2008 from Germany
In which universe? Every single issue still exists, maybe even worse. That might be the reason why i didn't even notice the age. It is timeless. I just had the fun with GlibC before a few weeks again.No. No it is not. These problems have all been solved.
Am i? I am always surprised about all the things i amWhat you are, is anti-Linux.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I am not for or against Linux, Windows or Mac. I am first and foremost just a very pragmatic user that knows by coincidence more than just Windows. And i always try to use the best tool for the job.
And i represent the majority. The very most musicians uses windows or mac as a matter of fact. And i wanted to explain why. Since the first step to fix a problem is to realize that the problem even exists. Fun fact, i would be happy when i could move to Linux. I know it in and out. I don't even have the hurdle to get used to all the ass forward concepts.
To simply deny easily proveable facts and to kill the messenger instead is unfortunately always the predictable reaction. I should have known it. But that's me out then. When somebody needs to discuss ad hominem then he has no arguments and is just wasting my time. And this is the kind of behaviour that does more harm to Linux that i could ever do.
This discussion here could have been in a forum before 20 years. Word by word. Nothing has changed. Nothing changes. Linux is still at 2-3% market share at the desktop. Mainly since it is heavily used at universities. The average desktop user still avoids Linux wherever they can. And i regularly bite into my table since most of the Linux distros could be so much better with a few simple steps ... *sadcatnoise*
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
OK. I'm perfectly happy to discuss "Dependency hell". "DLL hell is what Windows users call it--there are no DLLs in Linux--we might as well use proper terminology if we are debating this subject.Tiles wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:04 pmThis is exactly the kind of discussion that i do not want to lead. And you put strawmen here. The so called dll hell has nothing to do and is not related in any way to the dependency hell. If even then it is the solution to the dilemma under Linux. You can run 20 year old software at Windows. Because of the DLL's. At Linux the software usually quits with new dependencies. Happened to me with Ubuntu with a point upgrade with python dependencies with my very own software that i develop. And now tell your users why your software has quit working two weeks after release ...mevla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:51 pmNo. It's 10 years old. Easy to confirm. Look at another video of the same talk that was posted online 10 years ago.
And related to 'cursing over glibc' :
"DLL Hell"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLL_Hell
Partech, 28 March 2022 : "What is DLL Hell Problem and how to solve it?"
https://www.partech.nl/en/publications/ ... o-solve-it
Baeldung, 16 June 2023 : "DLL Hell Problem"
https://www.baeldung.com/cs/dll-hell-problem
Let the curse be with you ?
Hmmmm.
And now let's talk again about a so called DLL hell.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Here's a nice article about that:
https://news.itsfoss.com/linux-gaming-boost-driver/
I could go on and on and on. But I figure you'll have enough on your hands catching up with all of this I just gave you. Once you catch up on what's going on nowadays with linux, it will be really hard for you to continue with the arguments you are currently making about linux. As I've said, you're a little behind in what's been going on.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
There's definitely a way to verify hardware drivers. Let's see some non-class compliant hardware from the Windows 98 days work with Windows 11--if the drivers will even install....mevla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:27 pmI have no way to verify although I doubt that a software written 20 years ago will run seamlessly on a Windows machine built with the latest versions of everything (except that app) today. And if you can by enabling some compatibility feature, the results might not be guaranteed.Tiles wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:04 pm This is exactly the kind of discussion that i do not want to lead. And you put strawmen here. The so called dll hell has nothing to do and is not related in any way to the dependency hell. If even then it is the solution to the dilemma under Linux. You can run 20 year old software at Windows. Because of the DLL's. At Linux the software usually quits with new dependencies. Happened to me with Ubuntu with a point upgrade with python dependencies with my very own software that i develop. And now tell your users why your software has quit working two weeks after release ...
And now let's talk again about a so called DLL hell.
In other news, The Verge, June 2021 :
"Windows 11 will leave millions of PCs behind, and Microsoft is struggling to explain why"
https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/2255 ... m-response
When you are saying that you do not want a Linux vs/ Windows type of thing, are you aware of the arguments that you yourself bring against the use of Linux for audio creation purposes ? Do you really expect that no-one will squarely take this in without any reply ?
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
Not necessarily. Are we "paranoid", or are we tired of uneducated, outdated responses from internet trolls? Doesn't everyone get tired of those people?Monsieur_FyP wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:45 pmDoesn't this snooty, aggressive tone prove that linuxians are indeed paranoid?![]()
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1546 posts since 13 Dec, 2016
Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts! It's great to see different perspectives, and I appreciate everyone's input so far. And let's keep it respectful, no need to call anyone wanker, wtf??
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
Probably so. But then again, I have 20 old "Windows" software that runs just as fine on Linux.FrettedSynth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:53 pmLol Thanks, the older I get the less anything really bothers meaudiojunkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:26 pmYou are a better man than me. I allow myself to get riled up by trolls. I like your way of responding and aspire to becoming more that way.![]()
![]()
But I must be paranoid? I stopped using C/R and the likes with the Reaktor4 update that I got free because I bought a lil app called Sync Modular in around 1999 or so v0.49 cost $49.
Only other C/R I had was the update to Gigastudio from sampler. Way back then I said this is crazy and bowed out from purchasing any more. Last I heard Reaktor4 can no longer be autherized even though NI still exsists. Too much other software out there to deal with C/R.
In defense of Tiles, I believe he has 20 year old software that still runs great on Windows.
I have Sync Modular installed on Linux\WINE runs great plugins and all.
![HiHi :hihi:](./images/smilies/icon_hihi.gif)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
- KVRAF
- 4996 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
These days, if you run a stable system, your dependency issues are either bugs, or a problem of your own making. It's as simple as that.Tiles wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:14 pmIn which universe? Every single issue still exists, maybe even worse. That might be the reason why i didn't even notice the age. It is timeless. I just had the fun with GlibC before a few weeks again.No. No it is not. These problems have all been solved.
Am i? I am always surprised about all the things i amWhat you are, is anti-Linux.
I am not for or against Linux, Windows or Mac. I am first and foremost just a very pragmatic user that knows by coincidence more than just Windows. And i always try to use the best tool for the job.
And i represent the majority. The very most musicians uses windows or mac as a matter of fact. And i wanted to explain why. Since the first step to fix a problem is to realize that the problem even exists. Fun fact, i would be happy when i could move to Linux. I know it in and out. I don't even have the hurdle to get used to all the ass forward concepts.
To simply deny easily proveable facts and to kill the messenger instead is unfortunately always the predictable reaction. I should have known it. But that's me out then. When somebody needs to discuss ad hominem then he has no arguments and is just wasting my time. And this is the kind of behaviour that does more harm to Linux that i could ever do.
This discussion here could have been in a forum before 20 years. Word by word. Nothing has changed. Nothing changes. Linux is still at 2-3% market share at the desktop. Mainly since it is heavily used at universities. The average desktop user still avoids Linux wherever they can. And i regularly bite into my table since most of the Linux distros could be so much better with a few simple steps ... *sadcatnoise*
Let's take a different tack--explain your particular dependency issue, and I'll explain how you could have avoided the problem. For starters, I'd guess that you wanted to install a program that uses glibc that wasn't in your original distro. That would be a problem of your own making. That said, there are ways to avoid it--take Distrobox, for instance. You simply install Distrobox, choose the OS that you want that has that app that you are wanting in its repos, and install it through there. You then export that app to your original distro. Problem solved. If you follow simple rules, you avoid these problems.
1. Always use the package manager that came with your distro, and only install apps in your distro's repository to your main Linux OS. Do not break this rule.
2. Use sandboxing package managers or Distroboxes for everything else. Examples of this would be Flatpak, Appimages, Distrobox containers, and if all else fails, snaps. If you need to compile something, compile it in a distrobox container.
3. See rules 1 and 2.
Problem solved. Never experience Dependency Hell again for as long as you live.
Last edited by audiojunkie on Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
- KVRAF
- 2713 posts since 20 Apr, 2005
Tin foil hats and muesli. ![HiHi :hihi:](./images/smilies/icon_hihi.gif)
You can run unbuntu directly from windows with WSL these days.
Also Windows costs less than many compressors and eqs, let alone synths... So cost is hardly a relative issue to most people here anyway.
![HiHi :hihi:](./images/smilies/icon_hihi.gif)
You can run unbuntu directly from windows with WSL these days.
Also Windows costs less than many compressors and eqs, let alone synths... So cost is hardly a relative issue to most people here anyway.
- KVRAF
- 2713 posts since 20 Apr, 2005
There are of course good reasons to have open source software.audiojunkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:35 pmNot necessarily. Are we "paranoid", or are we tired of uneducated, outdated responses from internet trolls? Doesn't everyone get tired of those people?Monsieur_FyP wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:45 pmDoesn't this snooty, aggressive tone prove that linuxians are indeed paranoid?![]()
![]()
A much better thread than this would be a Linux for Audio 2024 thread. (If there isn't one).
I'd love to see a good guide to Linux for Audio.
The practical reality though is I would need/want:
Rme drivers
Steinberg drivers for midex 8 and small audio interface
Dual display drivers to work properly
Bitwig which I know does work
Cubase and Ableton to work
VSTs for many synths and FX from probably almost 20 different companies
Then I also use my pc for a bunch of other stuff.
For me I know windows works. And the cost of windows with a new computer every 5-6 years is not very much compared to the amount of time I'd need to spend trying to get a Linux install working....
- KVRAF
- 2713 posts since 20 Apr, 2005
This situation is about things that did work in windows 20+ years ago, that maybe didn't work on Linux at all... And may have had updated drivers since.audiojunkie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:31 pm There's definitely a way to verify hardware drivers. Let's see some non-class compliant hardware from the Windows 98 days work with Windows 11--if the drivers will even install....![]()
I think this is much better overall than how things have gone with Apple, and back then lots of stuff maybe wouldn't work with Linux at all.
NB: Standard class compliant hardware and drivers are definitely a very welcome thing and hopefully will reduce device obsolescence, which is a hugely wasteful problem, and also leads to problems like critical medical equipment needing a janky old PC to even operate....
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- KVRAF
- 3678 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
What was it, if you don't mind giving some details ?
Do you realize that the same can be said about everything ? One is using a $900 Festool router, I use a Bosch. Actually two of them. So what ? What woodwork are you producing ? I mentioned that the three pieces in the signature below were made using Linux. Care to share some of what you have made ?
What is this ? McDonalds' is selling a million of burgers per day. So what ?
So far, I doubt it.
Sorry, you underlined very clearly that you would not use Linux for audio creation. I, for one uses it since quite a few years and I have actual 'products' to support this. Again, if you think you can put down Linux w/o getting any replies, that's wishful thinking.Tiles wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:14 pm To simply deny easily proveable facts and to kill the messenger instead is unfortunately always the predictable reaction. I should have known it. But that's me out then. When somebody needs to discuss ad hominem then he has no arguments and is just wasting my time. And this is the kind of behaviour that does more harm to Linux that i could ever do.
And this is about audio creation. Not exactly the general desktop users.
You make me think of an old guy who used to work in software. When I told him that I use Linux he snapped back : "Linux is dead, there's no future for it". Adding that with Linux work I bought and sold two houses for $1.1 million, got a few cars, helped sending the kids to university did not change anything : he still believed that Linux is dead. Even saying that the newly installed security system for the house runs on Linux, that the company making it were looking for software developers did not change anything.
There are people like that. Even when you encounter them in person.
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- KVRAF
- 3678 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
I don't know about you, but I went to the corner store to get a few beers. ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)