VPS Avenger 2.3 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[Jac459]

I really like AA-Reverb ...is it available in an fx vst ? I know there is the V-Verb but is it the same ?

What I know is that they outsourced some of the reverbs from best in class standalone reverb developers. So I am pretty sure they can't provide an effect rack without breaking an agreement.

Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

That's a good question. Somewhere in the thousands of pages of this thread, it is mentioned.

What I remember is that they cited a few dev compagnies (not favfilter, not Valhalla DSP) apparently well regarded in the industry for which they directly purchased their algorithm. I think they were being modest because somebody was raving at the reverb quality and they openly said it is not theirs..
But it is all my memory, feel free to do a bit of archaeology.

[kraster]

I really like AA-Reverb ...is it available in an fx vst ? I know there is the V-Verb but is it the same ?

What I know is that they outsourced some of the reverbs from best in class standalone reverb developers. So I am pretty sure they can't provide an effect rack without breaking an agreement.

Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

I'd say between Liquidsonics and Relab.

[Razzia]

I really like AA-Reverb ...is it available in an fx vst ? I know there is the V-Verb but is it the same ?

What I know is that they outsourced some of the reverbs from best in class standalone reverb developers. So I am pretty sure they can't provide an effect rack without breaking an agreement.

Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

That's a good question. Somewhere in the thousands of pages of this thread, it is mentioned.

What I remember is that they cited a few dev compagnies (not favfilter, not Valhalla DSP) apparently well regarded in the industry for which they directly purchased their algorithm. I think they were being modest because somebody was raving at the reverb quality and they openly said it is not theirs..
But it is all my memory, feel free to do a bit of archaeology.

You're referring to the AA reverb and modulation effects? Pretty sure they're from ArtsAcoustic. Haven't made much noise in a while but they were a very well regarded dev like 10yrs ago

[Jac459]

I really like AA-Reverb ...is it available in an fx vst ? I know there is the V-Verb but is it the same ?

What I know is that they outsourced some of the reverbs from best in class standalone reverb developers. So I am pretty sure they can't provide an effect rack without breaking an agreement.

Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

That's a good question. Somewhere in the thousands of pages of this thread, it is mentioned.

What I remember is that they cited a few dev compagnies (not favfilter, not Valhalla DSP) apparently well regarded in the industry for which they directly purchased their algorithm. I think they were being modest because somebody was raving at the reverb quality and they openly said it is not theirs..
But it is all my memory, feel free to do a bit of archaeology.

You're referring to the AA reverb and modulation effects? Pretty sure they're from ArtsAcoustic. Haven't made much noise in a while but they were a very well regarded dev like 10yrs ago

Now that you say it, it does ring a bell.

[Jolaff]

I really like AA-Reverb ...is it available in an fx vst ? I know there is the V-Verb but is it the same ?

What I know is that they outsourced some of the reverbs from best in class standalone reverb developers. So I am pretty sure they can't provide an effect rack without breaking an agreement.

Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

That's a good question. Somewhere in the thousands of pages of this thread, it is mentioned.

What I remember is that they cited a few dev compagnies (not favfilter, not Valhalla DSP) apparently well regarded in the industry for which they directly purchased their algorithm. I think they were being modest because somebody was raving at the reverb quality and they openly said it is not theirs..
But it is all my memory, feel free to do a bit of archaeology.

You're referring to the AA reverb and modulation effects? Pretty sure they're from ArtsAcoustic. Haven't made much noise in a while but they were a very well regarded dev like 10yrs ago

haha It would totally make sense because ArtAcoustic reverb is THE one I would like to have and I though that AA-Reverb from VPS sound very similar... that's why I was wondering if there were a plugin version of it... unfortunately I'm on a mac and ArtAcoustic doesn't seam to update their reverb since a long time now....

[xx JPRacer xx]

So I tested a doted bassline with CyberPunkII/AR Dark Sun preset which is quite demanding.
On a MacBook Pro M2 Pro, I can run 6 instances of Avenger 2.0.5 before I hear some cracks with AR Dark Sun.
On the other hand, I can run .... 6 instances of Avenger 2.3.1 before I hear some cracks with AR Dark Sun.

Oh man I'm glad I'm not on Mac. In Bitwig, Windows 11, 12600K with 32GB I can run 45 instances of AR Dark Sun with all layers playing before I hear crackles and CPU hitting close to 100%.

Maybe they're compiling with optimisations for Intel/x64 and it's not optimal for the M architecture. Of course the M2 is supposed to be faster than a 12600K (in theory).

[m-ac]

The issue, or at least the biggest issue isn't heavy CPU load in normal usage, its the huge CPU spikes that happen at rest. I can cope with a synth that batters your CPU, but not one that spikes to 100%+ every couple of seconds when its not even being played. Here's a video showing how it behaves. Clean project, nothing running, one key pressed when each synth is first loaded, both synths open with the basic INIT preset. I used Current to compare as it's another modern synth. Look how the cpu meter doesn't move and compare that to avenger, which is completely unusable. Is this software sold fit for purpose? It doesn't feel like it.

I'm going to send this to support (again), and I'll keep the thread updated.

https://www.loom.com/share/c8e108201beb ... a29d188ad2

[xx JPRacer xx]

Seems I'm lucky since I have none of those (but like I said I'm Intel/Win). Maybe it has to do with distribution between performance cores and efficiency cores and some cores going in constant sleep/awake state?

[zvenx]

.....


Interesting ...and what would be the best in class stand alone reverb ?

I'd say between Liquidsonics and Relab.

This!!!
rsp

[Jac459]

So I tested a doted bassline with CyberPunkII/AR Dark Sun preset which is quite demanding.
On a MacBook Pro M2 Pro, I can run 6 instances of Avenger 2.0.5 before I hear some cracks with AR Dark Sun.
On the other hand, I can run .... 6 instances of Avenger 2.3.1 before I hear some cracks with AR Dark Sun.

Oh man I'm glad I'm not on Mac. In Bitwig, Windows 11, 12600K with 32GB I can run 45 instances of AR Dark Sun with all layers playing before I hear crackles and CPU hitting close to 100%.

Maybe they're compiling with optimisations for Intel/x64 and it's not optimal for the M architecture. Of course the M2 is supposed to be faster than a 12600K (in theory).

Yeah actually 98% of my usage of my laptop is for music so I may come back to windows BUT I think I am f...d because I don't want to go back to intel/AMD CISC architecture ever. I love M architecture too much. So I could move to the next version of Snapdragon elite but I fear it will have the same issue. Most certainly not an OS stuff but a CPU stuff.

It is a shame because I really like Avenger.

[m-ac]

Seems I'm lucky since I have none of those (but like I said I'm Intel/Win). Maybe it has to do with distribution between performance cores and efficiency cores and some cores going in constant sleep/awake state?

Whatever it is, it's ONLY avenger that causes it as I demonstrated in the video, so the problem lies firmly with how avenger is coded for mac.

[Gam456]

I am confused. Are you talking about my preset? It is not a pad.

Did you try to compare with same setup different synths ?

I did with phase plant, twin 3, Current and Spire. Avenger clearly use more CPU even on a simple preset with just oscillators and filters.

It's obiously not the same preset. My point is. Yes you can run many instance
on a high end cpu (16c/32t, 96Go).

Yes i can handle easly 128 instance with Pigments and a similar preset.
Even 210 with Spire. But the timeline is not in realtime anymore.
From my experience. Avenger is not the most cpu hungry. Diva, Ostirus are way worst

[Jac459]

I am confused. Are you talking about my preset? It is not a pad.

Did you try to compare with same setup different synths ?

I did with phase plant, twin 3, Current and Spire. Avenger clearly use more CPU even on a simple preset with just oscillators and filters.

It's obiously not the same preset. My point is. Yes you can run many instance
on a high end cpu (16c/32t, 96Go).

Yes i can handle easly 128 instance with Pigments and a similar preset.
Even 210 with Spire. But the timeline is not in realtime anymore.
From my experience. Avenger is not the most cpu hungry. Diva, Ostirus are way worst

Well my point is to compare 2.0.5 and 2.3.1, not to establish that VSTs can run in multiple instances in a DAW . That isn't exactly a breaking news.

Guess what, I think we can even agree that if you run Avenger 2 with one oscillator, you can run more instances than if you run it with 8 oscillators with unison, granular and spectral synthesis and multiple reverbs...
Some crazy shit...

(I am just kidding man).
On a more serious note, I don't have Ostirus but I do agree that Diva is more cpu hungry in its max quality mode... That's why I rarely use it....

[hey212]

If you jump to 4:55 in this video, they talk about how the UI designer went beyond what they originally asked for, and just presented them with a blank slate redesign of the interface, which was a lot more work to implement but seems to have been worth it.

I hope they'll allow that designer to revisit the Avenger 2 UI with the eyes of a UI professional as well, because despite being an amazing synth, the UI is quite clunky and old fashioned in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-MxUkfe_9I

[Teksonik]

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Perhaps you can answer this question please:

Does anyone know if there is a written list of samples that are contained in an Avenger expansion? I'd like to pick up one or two expansions during the sale but I want to make sure the sample content is something I'll want and use.All I can find is YouTube videos for each expansion.

A written list of the sample content (not down to the individual samples like Guitar C, Guitar C#, etc) but just the main categories would really help in deciding whether to purchase expansions and which ones would be best suited to an individual's particular needs.