Positioning of instruments in relation to drums.

[sakethencamenone]

Hi there. Can anyone give me some advice and guidence as to what are some good ways to play various instruments against a drum pattern. I think that a good rule for bass lines is to follow to bass kick(not every beat) and to avoid the snare. Has any one else got tips on how other instrumenst should be places ie. Guitars, pianos, leads and so on. Thanks for any advice and help.

[tapper mike]

There are no hard fast rules. The more you listed to music over the last 50 years the less evidence you will find which corroborates with those hard fast rules.

If you want a rule here it is.
Melody First.

People don't sing chord progression, They don't sing basslines, The don't sing drum patterns. They sing the melody if it's memorable.

All other parts support the melody. If they crowd out the melody it's not working. Musicians have a way of working together to form a cohesive unit.
If the work is too busy already they have no room to do thier stuff.

A good composer makes room for the players and a good player knows when to play, Where to play and when not to play. Recording with the drums first is standard fair for bands. However the song is rarely created drums first.
Record/write from your original concept instrument first then add other parts. If you go the other way around(starting with supporting instruments) you will find that your primary part is always in need of alteration to accomodate the other parts. To much accomodation for the primary part and you've lost the essence of what you were trying to create in the first place.

-tapper mike

[sakethencamenone]

Thank's alot tapper mike for your very informative and concise answer. I will also try and study and listen to some more music and genres to get more familiar with instrument placment.

[pier25]

If you want a rule here it is.
Melody First.

People don't sing chord progression, They don't sing basslines, The don't sing drum patterns. They sing the melody if it's memorable.

[...]

A good composer makes room for the players and a good player knows when to play, Where to play and when not to play. Recording with the drums first is standard fair for bands. However the song is rarely created drums first.
Record/write from your original concept instrument first then add other parts. If you go the other way around(starting with supporting instruments) you will find that your primary part is always in need of alteration to accomodate the other parts. To much accomodation for the primary part and you've lost the essence of what you were trying to create in the first place.

I think this (what tapper mike has said) is the best single piece of advice about making music you will ever hear. When composing start with the important things, leave the details for the end. Important things can be anything from drums, melodies, or effects depending on your style/genre/tastes/whatever.

I've been trying for years to build songs from the secondary instruments (drums and supporting effects/instruments)almost always resulting in nice sounding uninteresting songs. It's like preparing everything for a trip and then realizing you don't even know where you want to go. Setting the main ingredients will give you a direction, a reference to hold on to.

[sakethencamenone]

Hi there. I have been doing quite a lot of research on line, and reading my theory books, and I am enjoying this harmonising buisness. I am still getting to grips with it, but it seems to make alot of semse to start with a melody first, and then harmonise it. I have even been looking at music scores, and am beggining to understand the importance of harmonizing. Also when you harmonize, it also gives you the ability to adapt some interesting bass lines, instead of just doing root notes and fithhs. I think that I might have a few more questions regarding this topic, but for now thatks for opening my mind to this technique.

[tapper mike]

It's a challenge to write melody first.
The challenge is mostly meter.

To show someone a melody is to defeat the point of them writing the melody.
-A melody should have space. People breathe.
-A melody should be singable. In order to accomplish that melodies often are limited to one octave.
-A melody is based on but not limited to a motif or motive (the first group of notes)it should have comparative repetition(variation) and response.
-The motif must be simple.
-You don't have to start playing your melody on the first beat.(I strive not to)
-Your first note not does not have to indicate the chord tone or key.
-One thing I disagree with in regards to classicalists. You don't have to end on the same note you start.

My other thoughts are...
-Sing scales and arpeggio's take less then 1 minute to sing a simple one octave scale( different key each day) The easiest way to translate thoughs in your head to musical ideas is via your voice. You don't have to be the greatest singer. Then translate to your instrument. Also if you can sing the melody your playing on your instrument, you may have a valid melody.

The two most proclaimed artist who use that method are.
Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder.



You can write a melody without any backing however it's nice to have a beat indicator something as simple as a metronome. You want to not use it as a crutch and try to turn it into a drum machine. If you can work out melodies using only one beat rather then four all the better.

As soon as you can. Kill the metronome.

You don't have to fill every nook and cranny of a song with sound.

You don't have to give up what you already have learned about progressions.
or rythums. But you don't have to be chained to them either.
Above I stated -Your first note not does not have to indicate the chord tone or key. Try different chords against your melody. Some may sound dissonant some may sound connosant.
If it sounds dissonant your options are:
-Leave the chord there and then go to your next chord which sounds connosant.
You now have a textural resolution.
-Extend your chord. If your chord is a G and the notes sound better over F try making the chord a G11
-Change your chord to suit your melody. Sounds good over F, try F try Dm7
Sounds good over F7 use the dominant 7 subsition rule (any chord with a dominant7 can be subsituted with it's flattened 5th ergo B7)

The next time you want to change the chord (measure what ever) find out the first note that the melody plays on that bar. Make it a chord tone
The note is an E,,,, Eminor, Emajor, Fmajor7 F#7, G6, G13, G#b13, A(major minor) etc etc etc. This is called harmonic justification. Make the chord fit the melody not the other way around.
Usually this works best on the last note of your motif or to cap your melody.

[tapper mike]

Seiorusly this is the best book I've ever read regarding composition and arrangement.
Arranging Techniques For Synthesists- Eric Turkel

[sakethencamenone]

Thanks for the extra info and tips. I will look into ordering this book that you recomended. It looks very interesting and informative.