How do people mix down midi drums?
Do you send your different drums to different channels and apply compession/ reverb on each individual drum? Or do you use one channel for all drums? or a mixture?
Previously I've always worked on the drums in one channel, but have noticed that other people's drum patterns sound a lot better/fuller than mine, and wondered if it's because they're applying different processing chains to each individual drum (well kick and snare at least) rather than applying the same processing chain to all the drums?
Ben
Individual Drums or all together.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2081 posts since 8 Apr, 2004
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- KVRAF
- 2139 posts since 15 Jul, 2003 from ex-NJ, PA
I use Kontakt for drums (Sonar); a separate midi channel for each drum. I'll also set up 2 or 3 "audio output" groups. So, yes, this way you can put a reverb on only, for example, the snare and HHs and toms, delay only on percussion, separate EQ for Kick, etc.
I have this setup as a template in Sonar -- suggest something similar if your hosts supports it.
I have this setup as a template in Sonar -- suggest something similar if your hosts supports it.
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- KVRAF
- 4074 posts since 28 Apr, 2004
i seperate the drums off into 4 channels
1. cymbals and hats
2. kicks
3. snares
4. everything else
that way i've got the ability to alter the sound on each.
sometimes if i'm lazy (and its "electronic" drums) I just seperate the kick and leave everything else.
steve.
1. cymbals and hats
2. kicks
3. snares
4. everything else
that way i've got the ability to alter the sound on each.
sometimes if i'm lazy (and its "electronic" drums) I just seperate the kick and leave everything else.
steve.
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
it's definitely a good idea to process your drums in different channels. Of course, once you've processed your drums, you can always bounce them down to a single track to save effort later.
it depends on what kind of music you're making of course! sometimes you may want to even have different channels for different types of snare, let alone a single snare channel. i like to make as many different rhythms and sounds for a single drum sequence as possible, from as many sources as i can! it's phenomenal what a loose, rhythmic, mashy stream of noise can do to a groove if you pin it underneath.
i like to work on a variety of appropriate grooves using different sound sources, each processed differently (especially concentrating on particular frequency areas, such as a 'shaker'esque piece, for example). when you start to layer them together you find yourself with quite a full sounding groove.
of course, don't use a full drum kit on each!
don't be afraid to use more tracks. if your computer is up to it, and you have the willpower and dedication it can give loads of depth to your drums.
it depends on what kind of music you're making of course! sometimes you may want to even have different channels for different types of snare, let alone a single snare channel. i like to make as many different rhythms and sounds for a single drum sequence as possible, from as many sources as i can! it's phenomenal what a loose, rhythmic, mashy stream of noise can do to a groove if you pin it underneath.
i like to work on a variety of appropriate grooves using different sound sources, each processed differently (especially concentrating on particular frequency areas, such as a 'shaker'esque piece, for example). when you start to layer them together you find yourself with quite a full sounding groove.
of course, don't use a full drum kit on each!
don't be afraid to use more tracks. if your computer is up to it, and you have the willpower and dedication it can give loads of depth to your drums.
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- AcousticHippie
- 4525 posts since 12 Mar, 2003
depends on the song really........ when it's guitar driven (acoustic that is) I just use a nice preprocessed kit.... but if it's a track that's more drumdriven BFD comes in very handy.... but it's a bit more work (only a tad)
since I'm playing around with SampleTank2 right now... I gotta say - it's very convenient for me to just use the ST2 Drumkits... which sound quite nice when using the internal T-RackS compressor...
since I'm playing around with SampleTank2 right now... I gotta say - it's very convenient for me to just use the ST2 Drumkits... which sound quite nice when using the internal T-RackS compressor...
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- KVRer
- 15 posts since 11 May, 2004 from Noooo(r)FuckinWay
In a mixsituation, and especially if youre gonna mix the song on different workstations or if youre gonna send the song for mastering with each track it's a good idea to send each of them to their own channels or VSTi channels.. Actually I do'nt use the MIDI mixerstrip all that much, I go directly to the VSTi mixerstrip, there I can find all the info I need, accept offcourse gating, expression and so on, but that I'll sort out with automation or in the MIDI windows...
The more control you can get over each sound the better, there is nothing better than to use a little bit more time with routing and so on, you'll get a better mix later on, especially if you're having a problem with sounds wich uses the same frequencies...
The more control you can get over each sound the better, there is nothing better than to use a little bit more time with routing and so on, you'll get a better mix later on, especially if you're having a problem with sounds wich uses the same frequencies...
____c",)_____________
In Trance We Trust..!
In Trance We Trust..!
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
sometimes I split to two: kick with snare, everything else
sometimes 3 kick(s), snare(s), everything else
rarely 4 kick(s), snare(s), hihats, everthing else
and the purpose behind all this is to get the proper compression on the kick, usually apply some phasor or filter res cycling on the hihats and maybe some reverb or delay on the snare
it's a fairly amazing sound presence when you get through doing all that. my tendency was to overdo it all, so get it sounding great then back it off a bit
when it gets dicey is when there are sharp sounds like claps or claves or syn perc and they don't sound right in the snare or hihat's channel, then you need at 4 and that 4th channel may not have much fx at all -- maybe just a little HF exciter or compression
sometimes 3 kick(s), snare(s), everything else
rarely 4 kick(s), snare(s), hihats, everthing else
and the purpose behind all this is to get the proper compression on the kick, usually apply some phasor or filter res cycling on the hihats and maybe some reverb or delay on the snare
it's a fairly amazing sound presence when you get through doing all that. my tendency was to overdo it all, so get it sounding great then back it off a bit
when it gets dicey is when there are sharp sounds like claps or claves or syn perc and they don't sound right in the snare or hihat's channel, then you need at 4 and that 4th channel may not have much fx at all -- maybe just a little HF exciter or compression
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 22 Apr, 2004 from Los Angeles, CA
It is always best to have the drums on separate tracks so that you can compress, eq, and effect them separately. Keep everything separate until the last minute and then group the drums after you are comfortable with the drum mix. This is expecially true if you use live drums. Check out www.p5audio.com, this site offers live multi-track drum loops in all different genres. They include fills and changes, and you can instantly download them so you want have to wait.
Glooper wrote:How do people mix down midi drums?
Do you send your different drums to different channels and apply compession/ reverb on each individual drum? Or do you use one channel for all drums? or a mixture?
Previously I've always worked on the drums in one channel, but have noticed that other people's drum patterns sound a lot better/fuller than mine, and wondered if it's because they're applying different processing chains to each individual drum (well kick and snare at least) rather than applying the same processing chain to all the drums?
Ben
Looking for a quality VST/DXi/RTAS programmer!
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- KVRist
- 91 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from Carnation, Washington, USA
At the very least I like to separate out the kick and the snare, but it really does depend on the song. Individually treating each drum sound, or group of sounds (like the set of hi-hats) does give a much fuller sound. Mostly I use DR-008, keep everything on the same MIDI track, and just have separate audio outputs. If I'm feeling lazy I'll just put all drums on the same audio track and run it through PSP VintageWarmer.
Although I tend to focus on compression and reverb and not much more I think the process that wrench45us mentioned sounds like a great idea. A little flange on the hats and some delay on the snare would definitely broaden things out. Another thing I like to do is bounce dry drum tracks, and then make copies to add effects and mix from there. One more thing I like to stick with is creating a dedicated reverb bus and running all of the drums through the same reverb, it helps to keep things sounding more natural (unless of course you want it to sound un-natural, which can also be good)
.
Although I tend to focus on compression and reverb and not much more I think the process that wrench45us mentioned sounds like a great idea. A little flange on the hats and some delay on the snare would definitely broaden things out. Another thing I like to do is bounce dry drum tracks, and then make copies to add effects and mix from there. One more thing I like to stick with is creating a dedicated reverb bus and running all of the drums through the same reverb, it helps to keep things sounding more natural (unless of course you want it to sound un-natural, which can also be good)
.Willum
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There's nothing like seeing Mickey Mouse remove his head and light up a cigarette to destroy the Disney illusion.
http://www.slowclox.net
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There's nothing like seeing Mickey Mouse remove his head and light up a cigarette to destroy the Disney illusion.
http://www.slowclox.net
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- KVRAF
- 1740 posts since 6 Jan, 2004 from USA
have a template i load in fruity from a drum kit i made and control every single percussion sound. then mix that down into a wav and import it into n-track studio. unfortunately at that point i don't have much control over the drum track unless i want to redo do it in fruity. still, at some point its very important to control every aspect of the drums.
lates
t-willy
lates
t-willy
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2081 posts since 8 Apr, 2004
good stuff people ... lots of really good info .
Cheers
Ben
... lots of really good info . Cheers
Ben
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- KVRAF
- 13109 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
As someone mentioned before, I also find it pretty much convenient to a) have all the drums on one MIDI track (but that also depends on what I'm doing) and then run them through individual outs. Usually I just run kick and snare to individual outs for each of them and then use one stereo track for the rest. In the end I usually bus them together and have a bit of compression running there (my favourites there are Vintage Warmer or Endorphin).
When using recycled loops I usually just keep them in the sampler, running through one single stereo out, very seldom I may replace the snare sound and run it through something different.
In case I'm doing "dancy" stuff (which I hardly ever do) I do however have a whole bunch of DR-008 presets, just containing one sort of instrument, so there's a DR-008 stuffed with around 50 kicks, another one with 50 snares, another one for hats and cymbals and yet another one with all sorts of percussive stuff.
In that case I don't have to worry about individual outs because they are each running through their own channels anyways.
When using recycled loops I usually just keep them in the sampler, running through one single stereo out, very seldom I may replace the snare sound and run it through something different.
In case I'm doing "dancy" stuff (which I hardly ever do) I do however have a whole bunch of DR-008 presets, just containing one sort of instrument, so there's a DR-008 stuffed with around 50 kicks, another one with 50 snares, another one for hats and cymbals and yet another one with all sorts of percussive stuff.
In that case I don't have to worry about individual outs because they are each running through their own channels anyways.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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original flipper original flipper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8999
- KVRAF
- 2542 posts since 14 Sep, 2003 from Essex
Hi
You can have all the drums on 1 Midi track as a guide - I often do this as a sketch pad to get a basic idea down.
I might then copy the midi file to the next track and erase all but say the bass drum (on the NEW track)and so on until everything is on an individual track.
The above is a good way to work as it gives you a template (the entire drum track) to work from.
If I use Loops/Breaks I will quite oftern layer further drum tracks to enhance the loop - again in the same way - although it takes a bit more time because loops oftern have several hits going on - even within even 1 slice.
I have tracks where I may have over 10 channels of drums going!
In stuff like D&B there tends to be lots of 'Ghost' playing going on - Barely audible loops and hits; if you mute them you will notice the difference though.
If I am laying drums for Reggae then i revert to 1)Bass drum, 2)Snare, 3)Hi-Hats&Cymbals 4)A stereo track for Tom-Toms.
Experiment with seperating the drums out by keeping an intact rendition on say track one as a guide - split the kit into however many individual tracks necessary and also put in some layers (at a low level), drop the guide track or lower the volume on it.
Then group them all to a master chanell output and experiment with Compression/Enhancement, Also use Send FX on the individual drum channels for treatment like Reverb/Delay - you can also EQ and Compress individual channels.
Flipper.
You can have all the drums on 1 Midi track as a guide - I often do this as a sketch pad to get a basic idea down.
I might then copy the midi file to the next track and erase all but say the bass drum (on the NEW track)and so on until everything is on an individual track.
The above is a good way to work as it gives you a template (the entire drum track) to work from.
If I use Loops/Breaks I will quite oftern layer further drum tracks to enhance the loop - again in the same way - although it takes a bit more time because loops oftern have several hits going on - even within even 1 slice.
I have tracks where I may have over 10 channels of drums going!
In stuff like D&B there tends to be lots of 'Ghost' playing going on - Barely audible loops and hits; if you mute them you will notice the difference though.
If I am laying drums for Reggae then i revert to 1)Bass drum, 2)Snare, 3)Hi-Hats&Cymbals 4)A stereo track for Tom-Toms.
Experiment with seperating the drums out by keeping an intact rendition on say track one as a guide - split the kit into however many individual tracks necessary and also put in some layers (at a low level), drop the guide track or lower the volume on it.
Then group them all to a master chanell output and experiment with Compression/Enhancement, Also use Send FX on the individual drum channels for treatment like Reverb/Delay - you can also EQ and Compress individual channels.
Flipper.
