Cubase 12 dropping VST 2 support (For Apple Silicon)

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
MirkoVanHauten
KVRist
258 posts since 12 Mar, 2016

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:40 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:21 am
] Peter:H [ wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:14 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:08 am
There's no reason to drop something if the follow up sux or lacks features...
Huh, what!? Let the facts speak for itself not myths https://arefyevstudio.com/en/2019/01/26 ... is-better/
Thanks I rather listen to the established devs that for example spoke out here in the dev forum.
You mean the guys who wanted to establish their own plugin format a few times now, and nothing ever came out of it? Yeah, surely a very competent bunch in that regard. ;)we will stick to what we have". Nothing is perfect.
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops: Or even Arne from Steinberg himself who wrote about the VST3 issues and stupid workarounds.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:27 am

MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops:
Which one is that? And how come I never heard of it?
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20904 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:01 am
I'm talking about Apple native VST2 plugins, not Intel versions. They don't need a separate process in a DAW like Intel plugins would.
The question is, does Bitwig really do that. Or does it wrap/sandbox all plugins.

I can't tell. I don't use Bitwig, and I don't use a M1 Mac.
FL Studio now runs native on Apple Silicon. They did not announce that only VST3 native plugins work and they would have if that were the case. They have no wrapper for VST.

Every Apple Silicon native DAW will be able to run native plugins... whether they are VST2 or VST3... just the same as Intel versions could run VST2 or VST3. That is the functionality of the DAW and has nothing to do with Apple Silicon.

Native VST2 plugins not working in Cubase 12 native, (if that is even going to be the case) is a decision by Steinberg to remove that functionality.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
20904 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:27 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops:
Which one is that? And how come I never heard of it?
CLAP...

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
20904 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:36 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:23 am
When using the ARM64 build, any VST3 plug-ins used will have to be ARM64 native, REAPER does not yet support VST3 bridging. Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64.
So, yeah, bridging is required for VST2 plugins. Not for VST3's which are ARM64 native.
You have misinterpreted that.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:37 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:01 am
I'm talking about Apple native VST2 plugins, not Intel versions. They don't need a separate process in a DAW like Intel plugins would.
The question is, does Bitwig really do that. Or does it wrap/sandbox all plugins.

I can't tell. I don't use Bitwig, and I don't use a M1 Mac.
FL Studio now runs native on Apple Silicon. They did not announce that only VST3 native plugins work and they would have if that were the case. They have no wrapper for VST.
On Windows, they do.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:38 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:36 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:23 am
When using the ARM64 build, any VST3 plug-ins used will have to be ARM64 native, REAPER does not yet support VST3 bridging. Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64.
So, yeah, bridging is required for VST2 plugins. Not for VST3's which are ARM64 native.
You have misinterpreted that.
"Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64."

How am I supposed to interpret that in another way than that... they have to be bridged from Intel to ARM64.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:41 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:27 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops:
Which one is that? And how come I never heard of it?
CLAP...
It's a Linux format. Obviously from the guy who ported u-he's plugins to Linux.

No wonder I never heard of it.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

MirkoVanHauten
KVRist
258 posts since 12 Mar, 2016

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:45 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:41 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:27 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops:
Which one is that? And how come I never heard of it?
CLAP...
It's a Linux format. Obviously from the guy who ported u-he's plugins to Linux.

No wonder I never heard of it.
*originally was

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20904 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:46 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:38 am

"Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64."

How am I supposed to interpret that in another way than that... they have to be bridged from Intel to ARM64.
You keep referencing Intel VST2 plugins. As I've already mentioned, I am talking about Native VST2 plugins. Different subject matter.

Intel VST2 and Intel VST3 plugins both need to be bridged. Apple Silicon native plugins, whether VST2 or VST3 do not.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:51 am

MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:45 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:41 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:35 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:27 am
MirkoVanHauten wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:26 am
Yes, those small incompetent indie devs like... ...u-he, who have a working plugin format with working DAW support :oops:
Which one is that? And how come I never heard of it?
CLAP...
It's a Linux format. Obviously from the guy who ported u-he's plugins to Linux.

No wonder I never heard of it.
*originally was
Actually, I was talking about Urs and some others, who were actually involved in those discussions in the developer forums here, not about the guy who invented that format, and then joined u-he.

Apart from the format being a Linux format, as far as I can see, which also doesn't add anything to the point, because, I was talking about an actual alternative to VST. Not some obscure one platform format noone ever heard of, which no known (to me) DAW supports anyway.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
9233 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:56 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:46 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:38 am

"Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64."

How am I supposed to interpret that in another way than that... they have to be bridged from Intel to ARM64.
You keep referencing Intel VST2 plugins. As I've already mentioned, I am talking about Native VST2 plugins. Different subject matter.

Intel VST2 and Intel VST3 plugins both need to be bridged. Apple Silicon native plugins, whether VST2 or VST3 do not.
Indeed. They're specifically calling out Intel VST2 plugins. Not sure how much more clear they can be.

Lots and lots of ARM64 VST2 plugins working just fine on Apple Silicon here (2021 16" MBP - Reaper). Steinberg's been trying to force VST3 adoption and they're intentionally knee-capping their own users again. This is the same thing they did by refusing to support sidechain inputs on VST2 plugins, and implying sidechains could only work with VST3. That was untrue and totally a choice Steinberg made. Just like VST2 not being able to work on Apple silicon isn't true and is a choice Steinberg made.

To the Cubendo users: when your DAW developer keeps treating you like crap and regularly misleads you...you're not in a healthy DAW relationship.
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:57 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:46 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:38 am

"Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64."

How am I supposed to interpret that in another way than that... they have to be bridged from Intel to ARM64.
You keep referencing Intel VST2 plugins. As I've already mentioned, I am talking about Native VST2 plugins. Different subject matter.

Intel VST2 and Intel VST3 plugins both need to be bridged. Apple Silicon native plugins, whether VST2 or VST3 do not.
Can you name some ARM64 native VST2 plugins?

I remember a discussion about Dune 3, where Richard announced that there will be a M1 native AU, but not VST2.
Last edited by chk071 on Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
9233 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:00 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:57 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:46 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:38 am

"Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64."

How am I supposed to interpret that in another way than that... they have to be bridged from Intel to ARM64.
You keep referencing Intel VST2 plugins. As I've already mentioned, I am talking about Native VST2 plugins. Different subject matter.

Intel VST2 and Intel VST3 plugins both need to be bridged. Apple Silicon native plugins, whether VST2 or VST3 do not.
Can you name some ARM64 native VST2 plugins?
U-he - almost all plugins (except Uhbik, MFM2, Filterscape, and Tyrell)
Valhalla - all plugins
Overloud - all plugins
Eventide - almost all plugins (except QuadraVox and OctaVox)
Acon Digital - all plugins
etc.

I've literally got over a hundred native ARM64 VST2 plugins. Maybe closer to 200.

...why are you not believing the people who actually own the damn PC's and use these plugins daily? Oh, right...because Steinberg is confusing the issue and putting out misleading information.

chk071
KVRAF
30687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:04 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:00 am
...why are you not believing the people who actually own the damn PC's and use these plugins daily?
Because not everyone is so tech savy (me included, of course), and, because many DAW's actually hide that stuff from the user. Like the DAW's which use wrappers/bridging to host the plugins.

Well, on u-he's site, there is no mention of the VST2's not being ARM native, so, I (have to) take your word for it.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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