Open letter to companies still using iLok ( looking at you Slate Digital )

[hibidy]

It is.

It's a video game to these guys. It's there, it's free, do it.

I mean, I watch youtube for "free" all the time

[metamorphosis]

I'm not supporting slate, because they don't support XP, the DAW I use, or really, anything that indicates that they may have bugs in their software...

[crimsonwarlock]

Read that Slate email I posted above and tell me that preventing piracy didn't translate into more sales. You cannot argue with the facts.

I read it, and I simply don't agree with the notion that is brought forward there. From my point of perspective, the music business is basically going to die and is being replaced by home-studio owners that distribute their music over the net instead of through big record companies. If you are operating in this changing demagogic (as Steven Slate is doing) you can focus on the constantly shrinking market of professional users, or get with the program (as I see it) and understand that the future of music-software is in the bedroom. Only companies like Avid (Protools) will survive in the high-end sector of this market, simply by market-share alone. Everyone else (including audio hardware companies) are shifting their market strategies accordingly.

So it's basically about price-point (one of the 5 P's in marketing); you price accordingly to market segment. So back at my previous point: if you price your product towards professional segments, you won't get additional sales from hobbyists (where the most cracks are used) by dongling-up your software. It just doesn't translate marketing-wise.

I'm pretty sure Steven Slate would see a whole lot more sales from targeting bedroom-producers (by using a lower price-point), then by iLok-ing his products. Mind you, in sharp contrast with copy-protection schemes, lowering prices have only positive connotations. And if he is worried about getting in less money from professionals that way, there's always dual licensing like e.g. Cockos uses for Reaper.

A small note on my perspective here: I'm owning a small business myself with a few people in my employment. I'm in IT (we develop software ) and my company also has to scramble constantly to keep afloat in the current economic situation. So I do somewhat know what I'm talking about

[meloco_go]

Only companies like Avid (Protools) will survive in the high-end sector of this market, simply by market-share alone. Everyone else (including audio hardware companies) are shifting their market strategies accordingly.

Everyone else? Like whom? I see all sorts of premiers at AES and they target very different market segments. Smaller studios also invest in top-end stuff. Yes, it is likely that there's currently no demands on new LFACs on the market but people still buy high-end gear. I would hardly call Slate's prices high-end.

So it's basically about price-point (one of the 5 P's in marketing); you price accordingly to market segment. So back at my previous point: if you price your product towards professional segments, you won't get additional sales from hobbyists (where the most cracks are used) by dongling-up your software. It just doesn't translate marketing-wise.

Don't underestimate the number of kids who are backed by parents so that they can drop whatever they like on something "cool". Imagine them showing off to their penniless peers who can't get Slate's stuff cause it isn't cracked still.

I'm pretty sure Steven Slate would see a whole lot more sales from targeting bedroom-producers (by using a lower price-point), then by iLok-ing his products.

And how much lower it should be? At $199 intro price with a product like VBC (3 very different comps) they are hardly more expensive than anything else (look at UAD). And they also have sales. So I don't get where's your point aiming.

And if he is worried about getting in less money from professionals that way, there's always dual licensing like e.g. Cockos uses for Reaper.

A different matter.

A small note on my perspective here: I'm owning a small business myself with a few people in my employment. I'm in IT (we develop software ) and my company also has to scramble constantly to keep afloat in the current economic situation. So I do somewhat know what I'm talking about

But what do you do? Do you sell software or work as subcontractor? Are you in position where you make decision whether your customer is obliged to pay or you are at his mercy?

As for ilok, I never had problems with it (fortunately). You just have to be careful and not rush to update your stuff you can. And also, I doubt that Slate didn't consider problems with ilok when he made decision to go on with it. So far as I see he's doing good.

[meloco_go]

PS, also dongle is one of the most convenient copy-protection schemes -- you can take it with you and work at other places, you can reinstall software and update your computer easily. Not so with challenge-responce. As for losing or damaging your ilok -- what's different from losing your keys or credit card or vallet etc?

[crimsonwarlock]

I would hardly call Slate's prices high-end.

For many (most) people, everything over 50 bucks (or some such) is high-end priced. Mind you, you need a bit more stuff then only 'a few compressors'. So it's that amount of money times X. And there are very few people that actually have money 'lying around'.

Don't underestimate the number of kids who are backed by parents so that they can drop whatever they like on something "cool". Imagine them showing off to their penniless peers who can't get Slate's stuff cause it isn't cracked still.

That still doesn't make it a market segment that is a healthy target.

And if he is worried about getting in less money from professionals that way, there's always dual licensing like e.g. Cockos uses for Reaper.

A different matter.

No it is not. Cockos's stand regarding (not using) copy-protection and it's licensing model that clearly targets the low end of the market, is obviously a big part of Reaper's (marketing) success.

But what do you do? Do you sell software or work as subcontractor? Are you in position where you make decision whether your customer is obliged to pay or you are at his mercy?

That doesn't matter at all in this discussion; it's about targeting market segments and price-point, stuff I deal with every working day.

[lfm]

I can relate to that a vendor is protecting their business with copy protection schemes.

But for me Slate Digital is far too small to end up with lost investment in their products - if going overboard.

And that is the dilemma - many vendors with highend product line are too small - but they need each sale even more than a bigger company like Waves or Avid.

My first contact with hardware locks were in the 90's and it was printer port locks - and most of them could not even be stacked on top of each other. You had one, max two printer ports for MSDOS.

In my own business I had for 16 years I used HASP locks for just some custom ordered software - but god, that was new versions of HASP every release I made. You planted all kind of seeds within the software that were checked and some other spots in software making it difficult to crack. And each call to locks were really heavy load to be difficult to crack.

I don't know about the usb locks if you can use them on usb hubs or not, but I feel a strong resistance against any products with these locks. Usually it means that drivers to these locks go way below what OS do - potentially creating problems on computer.

Realtime applications like audio does not need much of interruptions to produce crackles and pops - why add software that you have as a potential reason to troubleshoot for your computer to run properly.

If having software like word processors or similar that are not realtime in the same sense - if calls to make checks on locks take longer is hardly a problem. But these locks are made to be difficult to crack - they are not designed to realtime apps or to be smooth. Ultimate purpose is to be difficult to crack.

Once into to that thinking of protection as the foremost task - software vendors go overboard. Take the new AAX standard for ProTools that also need each plugin vendor to accomodate some iLok stuff to run. So buying anything AAX and ProTools you are basically in the hands of PACE iLok2 people.

Take Arturia, I got the Analog Laboratory which is hardware keyboard and software - what they call hybrid synth. They had every opportunity to make something clever having hardware that is part of the solution - but they went overboard and also had SyncroCrap protection of software.
Why is mystery to me?
You could very well made a good solution tied to hardware.
They have gone making hardware only stuff now - partly because of piracy still doing all these protection stuff.

Buying software from vendor with hardware locks - you really support the protection vendor for locks and become completely dependent that they will be around too to correct any anomalies arisen on your system.

I don't believe hardware locks will survive - and don't make myself depend on these companies.

In the case of Waves - you can use licenses stored on disk as a file, or on flash memory as a file - that seems acceptable to me. Nothing that goes well below the OS possibly creating problems that I have with audio. Everything about protection is transparent to end user - built into the products from vendor you bought it. More vendors should adopt that idea.

There will always be a click of parasites in the world that think they are smart not supporting vendors of products they like. Leave them too it - they will have all kinds of issues, never the latest releases with bugfixes and so on. Just a bunch of freeriders that never grow up.

Part of growing up is really the core of piracy. Being grown up is really when you want to give something back - not just take from others. That is why you as grown up make a good parent - you want to give something back to life and your children and what comes after that.

As a kid in school you have no clue what makes the world - with people having jobs that pay taxes - work. You got your weekly or monthly allowance from your parent and have no clue why piracy is wrong - just making a life from parasiting on what other people created. AT first you think that is smart.

Being grown up - that is when you want to contribute something.
Just taking what other people created and making a life for yourself doing that - that is just staying on a kid level, never growing up.

I don't envie these warez downloaders - they will never enjoy contributing to society and will stay kids all their lives.

[Keith99]

I delayed before getting my first ilok but now I have it it is fine, zero inconvenience and very quick to register new products. Apart from an initial cost there is no negative to it that I can see.

[kelvyn]

@crimsonwarlock

You seem to be focusing on one point of a much larger picture which somehow discredits the professional in favour of the hobbyist...
While your points may be pertinent to some of us they are not pertinent to all of us. Absolutism becomes just rhetoric in todays niche oriented consumer world. 'Something for everyone' is todys new marketing credo and big (as well as small) companies understand that more and more. It's not always about the lowest common denomoninater which is what you seem to be implying... Market trends go one way innovaters go the other way.... Steven Slate is building a fine company that has gone from strength to strenght based on great product. He's maintained quite a healthy balance between quality and price and is keen (as we all are) to protect his intellectual property rights in order to maintain a healthy bank balance... nothing wrong with that!
If you don't like iLok nobody is forcing you or anyone to use it and there are plenty of alternatives to fascilitate getting the job done. It's the same with pricing... there are so many great alternatives... Bootsy's stuff for example. Without wanting to get into a flame war your argumentation is somewhat moot. And tjust like you I've been in Adverstising (25 years) and understand something about marketing.
Now if you want to discuss Slates marketing concept....

[solidtrax]

Before I rant, let me say that a) I earn my living as a programmer, and b) while I used cracks when I was a young punk 15 years ago, I now use only legit purchased software.

If you are using iLok now, you are losing business. I, and many like me, will never ever buy your product. iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers. It does nothing to prevent piracy, any decent cracker can crack iLok protected code and any idiot can find cracks online. [...]

Wrong. All ilok2 protected software is, last time I checked, still not cracked.
I don't get it why people hate ilok. Sure, when they updated their software earlier this year, bad things happened and many people experienced problems. But seriously, how often has that happened before? I didn't upgrade first thing so I didn't have ANY problems whatsoever when I installed the new software. I think upgrading to new software on day one is never a good idea if you can't afford downtime. That's why I always wait with updates, just in cases like this. Works for me.

I like the idea that all my ilok2 protected software can't be downloaded from torrent sites. I like the fact that, when I do a complete re-install of my studio computer, that all my ilok2 protected software will work as soon as I re-install them. I don't have to search for a serial key or download a new license file, it's just installing, plugging the ilok2 key in, and go!

You are missing out on same great plugins by avoiding ilok2 plugins. Shoot yourself. Sure, there are also tons of great native plugins that don't use ilok, but it's save to say that most of them (if not all) are also available as a crack.

Many developers first hand experienced what happened to their sales when suddenly their software is cracked. Gigantic drops in sales, so don't start telling that piracy is not affecting those developers, they felt it, they felt it hard! So it's totally fine if they chose to protect their software with something that has proven to be a good protection for a long time already.

[meloco_go]

For many (most) people, everything over 50 bucks (or some such) is high-end priced.

And once again, say VBC -- 3 comps for $199 intro price. That's $67 apiece. High-end? For VTM and VCC there was a sale with a combined deal where you could buy both for something like $199 (or even lower).

Mind you, you need a bit more stuff then only 'a few compressors'. So it's that amount of money times X. And there are very few people that actually have money 'lying around'.

If you make money from doing audio, you're have to invest in tools. And you are free to chose what tools to use. You can always demo and see whether the stuff is at fair price for you.

That still doesn't make it a market segment that is a healthy target.

I don't think that targeting a market where one can't spend $199 once a year on a tools one uses is healthy either.

No it is not. Cockos's stand regarding (not using) copy-protection and it's licensing model that clearly targets the low end of the market, is obviously a big part of Reaper's (marketing) success.

You don't know how it actually translates to their sales, and they produce DAW which is different. People rarely use more than a couple of platforms but they can use as many plugins as they like and that makes a perception difference.

That doesn't matter at all in this discussion; it's about targeting market segments and price-point, stuff I deal with every working day.

If piracy does not come into your consideration it is VERY different.

[MFXxx]

Never had an issue with ilok and wish I could have all licenses on it for simplicity, shame waves moved now on the third dongle

Personally a few observations from scanning the posts and not reading in depth;

XP Is a legacy OS no dev should be expected to support it and is dropped by April 2014 (http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/ ... pport.aspx).

Mac's, bane of anyone who wants to use anything legacy based, my wife has one and due to compatibility issues needing to go through a complex upgrade path to the latest OS and other issues. Simply boot-camped it and she is exclusively Win8 (unless she forgets to press the ALT key on bootup). I personally feel Apple often change things for the sake of commerce, make people but more products (software).

Anti piracy, if anyone can crack it (ilok2) then where is it! Evidentally it works. People have to buy the software. As soon as Waves came of it...bang you guessed it!!

On the other side of the coin uhe, hardly see them loiterring around the net. But URS will tell you when something get's released, sales drop.

Maybe I have been fortunate in my experience and time with iLok...for me no quibbles or complaints. It's all good.

[crimsonwarlock]

You seem to be focusing on one point of a much larger picture which somehow discredits the professional in favour of the hobbyist...

I don't see how I was implying that. I never said anything to that notion.

He's maintained quite a healthy balance between quality and price and is keen (as we all are) to protect his intellectual property rights in order to maintain a healthy bank balance... nothing wrong with that!

Still, his price-point is certainly 'out of bounds' for most bedroom producers. So his target is clearly above that demagogic. So does he target a segment that is known for using cracked software? That is the actual issue here. In the whole story it is not clear at all if the cracked versions actually end up in the segment that he is marketing to. And if so, we are back at price-point.

If you don't like iLok nobody is forcing you or anyone to use it and there are plenty of alternatives to fascilitate getting the job done. It's the same with pricing... there are so many great alternatives... Bootsy's stuff for example.

Did you see the link in my signature. Maybe click it and read what I said there about my 'move to freeware' (as it is related).

... your argumentation is somewhat moot.

It is not moot in the scope of this topic. Copy protection in software is putting the burden onto the paying customer, which is stupid to begin with. Arguing that a dev needs copy protection to 'protect sales' is therefore a pretty circular argument to begin with. I'll leave it at that.

Mind you (and everyone else), I >>DON'T<< agree with using cracked software. I myself can proudly state that I NEVER used any cracked software (mainly because I started out using computers by writing my own software, we are talking pre-MSDOS here). I never needed Photoshop (for example) as I had a paid license for PaintShop Pro as a cheap alternative (talking about price-point there). I used to have some very expensive licenses for the dev-platform we used, that actually used dongles. I moved away from that product when they actually where shifting the burdon of their 'lock-in' to my customers. I've had my own share of copy-protection idiocy and because of that never thought about doing something like that to my own customers.

In addition to that, in my line of business we actually MUST insure the customers continued use if we (as a company) would no longer be able to support them. Believe me that 'copy protection' is the absolute LAST thing you want to think about in that scenario. It's a plain stupid idea.

[mandolarian]

Wanted to stay out of this, but, any system that punishes legitimate paying users for the sins of script kiddies is marketing from from the crazy side of the street. They don't trust me, how am I supposed to trust them? Especially when 'their protection' breaks my system.

As a former modestly successful recording artist I know piracy sucks. Almost as bad as the labels. I lost more money to labels than pirates, but hey, the labels were the first pirates with a crack team of lawyers.

In the case of PACE and their iLok devil spawn, the cure is as bad as the disease. PACE hosed two production systems that I needed for time critical projects. Cost me thousands in revenue. Boohoo for me. Neither PACE nor AVID would cover my loss from their malformed drivers. This was a few years ago, maybe their code and devices are more stable, but I swore never again to reward a vendor for trashing my systems. Software is complex enough, without implementing totally unnecessary garbage code to protect companies who already have my money.

So Slate and other PACE iLokers are dead to me. Not going to see a penny from me. That's two sales that Slate has lost due to their paranoia about losing sales. It's a no-win for everyone, but the hackers.

I would urge Slate and other iLokers to implement U-he style copy protection. One, it's proven effective in stopping the kiddies and two, it doesn't hose your customer's system. That's a win-win.

I purchase only from more enlightened developers that offer copy protection methods that do no harm. Why reward companies who are willing to punish their paying clients? Is it because most musicians/creatives/small studio owners are insecure masochists who will always work cheaper, longer and jump through burning copy-protected hoops in the attempt to make their art?

Piracy is evil. Supporting PACE is just added cost evil.

/bitter rant

[recursive one]

U-he stuff uses the most customer-friendly copy protection system in the world but the newer versions of Diva, Zebra and Ace are still not properly cracked afaik.

This is a good example of how one can protect his sales with minimal hassle for the legit users and one reason why I preferred Satin to VTM.