UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 3.01 released - rumors, ads, praise, mud wrestling and off-topic inside!

[Musical Gym]

@sircuit: To each his own. Do you get off on playing mister superior?
Kontakt has it, Thorn has it, Corona has it, Synthmaster has it, and on and on. Devs put it in for a reason. It's a valuable tool/feature. You don't think so, but don't pretend to be mister authority of all things daw when you are not.

[machinesworking]

@sircuit: To each his own. Do you get off on playing mister superior?
Kontakt has it, Thorn has it, Corona has it, Synthmaster has it, and on and on. Devs put it in for a reason. It's a valuable tool/feature. You don't think so, but don't pretend to be mister authority of all things daw when you are not.

Not to mention any drum machine emulation VSTi has it. You can do it in Live as well, someone mentioned you couldn’t, you can’t with AUi’s but VSTi’s work just fine.

It’s a cool feature, especially for any VSTi with a built in sequencer.

This is coming from someone who loves Falcon and never had much interest in Avenger btw.

[EvilDragon]

That's because AU plugins don't support MIDI output... except AUv3, if I understand correctly. And there's not a lot of those around?

[Nleif]

I'm a fan of Falcon, I just wish there was an undo button.

[Cinebient]

That's because AU plugins don't support MIDI output... except AUv3, if I understand correctly. And there's not a lot of those around?

Yes, most iOS AUv3 can do it (but i think they are dedicated midi FX and/or developers have to implement it right so it‘s not by default).
Strange that here a mobile OS is sometimes more advanced (just talking AUs). But i heard from developers that Apple‘s documentation is a bit terrible here as well.
Not sure if AU can‘t do midi out but at least Logic doesn‘t support it.
In general the desktop world is really much slower to addopt to new things but mostly remains a bit more stable as well due to it.
At least my experience.
However, it‘s great to use nearly all apps also as midi output since a lot having interesting options to trigger midi.
For desktop DAW‘s it makes more sense for me to use dedicated midi FX anyway.
Falcon as Logic midi FX would be a good thing for me.
Here you can do workarounds and record the midi output as well.

[aMUSEd]

This is where Plogue Bidule is such a lifesaver - it comes as a Logic MFX version and since it can load AU, VST 2 and 3 plugins it can turn any plugin with a midi out into a midi source within Logic.

[Cinebient]

This is where Plogue Bidule is such a lifesaver - it comes as a Logic MFX version and since it can load AU, VST 2 and 3 plugins it can turn any plugin with a midi out into a midi source within Logic.

This!
I just wish Apple would update the midi FX options so that i can add a midi FX channel for stacked tracks and also allows to modulate automation parameters from other midi FX like it‘s so easy to modulate any automation parameter from any FX or instrument with the modulator.

[tq]

AU instruments on Macs do not support MIDI out. I just learned that the hard way again as I tried to route MIDI out from Jamstix AU to BFD and failed miserably... The only way to do this is IAC drivers (with latency issues) or using the VST versions with something like Bidule or that BlueCat plug in (which act as VST host then, and keep the MIDI within that plugin). It's a shame that it's *still* like this - and similarly, Logic's treatment of MIDI flows hasn't improved, either. They were very much ahead of the competition with the environment back in the Emagic days, but the DAW world has evolved since them. I consider myself a Logic fanboy - been here since the Notator days - but Apple should definitely do something here.

@sircuit: These aren't niche use cases - for example, you may want to layer the output of a drum machine AU with other sounds, and that simply doesn't work 'live' and intuitively, but very often just by exporting MIDI (if that is supported by the instrument). So this is not a 'useless' feature at all.

In short, you cannot just blame Falcon for this - it's very much a limitation of AU's in the first place.

[Cinebient]

Yep, i wonder why Apple limits midi unnecessary or makes it so hard to use sometimes. At least they implemented MPE in a good way (for me).
Mostly i use a midi FX at the end of a chain where i can just drop and drag the output from all previous midi FX into a track.
One extra step but better than doing some routing i can‘t follow

[sircuit]

@sircuit: These aren't niche use cases - for example, you may want to layer the output of a drum machine AU with other sounds, and that simply doesn't work 'live' and intuitively, but very often just by exporting MIDI (if that is supported by the instrument). So this is not a 'useless' feature at all.

Even if I innitially make a sketch pattern inside a drum machine’s internal sequencer, I always reprogram it in midi where I have a more precise approach for pretty much everything: automations, velocities, swings, fills variations. I definitely don’t need to layer sounds when sketching, that comes later in production phase.

Yes, it makes sense in live situations (hardware or software or hybrid setups) but for typical studio environment production workflow where everything happens on the midi tracks, I couldn’t care less about this aspect.

I can stack tracks and apply various midi fx or scripter independently if needed (very rare and often times just because I can not because is the only way) but I have yet to find such a spectacular way of midi processing inside an instrument that mandatory asks for a midi out.

[tq]

Sure, you can do that. But maybe we can agree on “different people, different use cases”? I am sure Jamstix users would disagree with you, ans probably many users of AU instruments with complex ARPs, where driving other instruments while doing stuff live is desirable - for example while composing or experimenting. Apple’s AU/Logic limitations make some things unnecessarily complicated here.

[tq]

Double post

[ThomasHelzle]

I personally would love to have a midi out option, since the internal scripting of falcon is really good.
While it would be overkill to use it as just a midi processor, it certainly would make sense to me to have it as an option.
Look what HomeGrownSounds is able to do with Kontakt.

BTW. Not only AU is limited in the Midi out department, VST3 also has severe limitations there. Notes work, but modulations don't.

Cheers,

Tom

[sircuit]

maybe we can agree on “different people, different use cases”?

No doubt about this. Completely agree.

But the number of users of such cases on the other hand...

I am sure Jamstix users would disagree with you, ans probably many users of AU instruments with complex ARPs

So users of one controller and PROBABLY others? Yep, not a niche at all here.

[sircuit]

I personally would love to have a midi out option, since the internal scripting of falcon is really good.

Look what HomeGrownSounds is able to do with Kontakt.

It was answered before, Falcon’s midi events go beyond the official midi standard, so a midi out will actually reduce it’s abilities to do what it can do internally. Also, is not designed to be an external sequencer.

HGS is interesting for experimenting. 1000 views on youtube on their Sequencer collection shows again how niche this approach is.