One-Synth-Challenge 60: Any One Synth - Submissions, Voting & Results

[V'ger]

The trouble with the previous voting system (variations of which is now suggested in this thread) was the huge variation in points given. The difference of the sum total given by one voter to the next could vary by as much as 3X (see here for example) and that was not entirely fair and also opened up the window for 'tactical' voting which is not ideal.

The stacking system was to combat this flaw and most people agreed with it, although I think we were all taken aback by the amount of work it is to separate 68 tracks. I still say that for 'normal' OSC's which has 20-35 entries this is not really a big deal compared to other modes of voting so suggest we try it a bit more before passing final judgement (will have a new poll about voting systems soon). Remember that the new voting page remembers how you left it so you can do bits at a time.

About scoring tracks based on a list of criteria (weighted voting) like suggested in this thread, it is a nice idea but has also been up in previous rules polls but were voted down. I guess people just have too varying views on what criteria should be awarded to make any fair system. In addition this system also has the same flaw as with the 1-5 points that total votes are not equal.

[idfpower]

Idfpower - Hopefully the above paragraphs explain why this has been planned, and not bizarre? Making a change like this of course comes with problems. Let me know if I didn't answer correctly.

I know why this new system was implemented - it's very simple: ppl voted for it. What I was trying to point out was that some of the voters apparently had not a very clear picture of what they were voting for. And now that we can see how it works, we're gonna complicate things even more with categories and stuff? Why can't we keep it simple?

You wonder why there are not many simple voters (as in ppl that haven't submitted tracks for OSC)? Well frankly, because it's very tedious. Heck, some of the participants are not taking the voting seriously and you expect the mere listener to spend days debating whether song A fits category B or C? There's more likely to see less ppl submitting tracks precisely because they don't want to deal with more headaches after working a whole month under pressure to finish their song in time...

The voting system should not create frustration and confusion; it should be rewarding - in the sense that even if you don't score in the top 5 you'd still feel good seeing who liked you song, how much, etc. It should be simple and not time consuming. And it should be precise - right now you're forced to artificially score songs up and down although you may feel they're equally good.



Ok, how about this: instead of generating a voting form after the submitting period ends how about creating a special form that would allow ppl to drop in direct links to their OSC entries. Once they do that, the form loads the Soundcloud file so it can be played and also generates a voting grid near the song's name (let's say 1 - 5 stars/points/whatever). You have a small pannel on the side with 2 buttons: SAVE & SUBMIT. It can slide up and down with the page, or they can be fixed at the bottom of the form, whatever is easier to do. So you can score songs as they are uploaded and save your work. After the submitting period ends, the SUBMIT button becomes active and you can send your votes. And you can also include a message button for each entry so ppl would be able to give private feedback for the tracks they like/or not - if they feel like. Maybe it will be a hassle to put everything together, but it will make voting simple and fun

[jasinski]

The stacking system was to combat this flaw and most people agreed with it, although I think we were all taken aback by the amount of work it is to separate 68 tracks. I still say that for 'normal' OSC's which has 20-35 entries this is not really a big deal compared to other modes of voting so suggest we try it a bit more before passing final judgement (will have a new poll about voting systems soon). Remember that the new voting page remembers how you left it so you can do bits at a time.

I think the stacking system has good merit to it. If you could just visually divide up the list in to 3-5 columns (and keep the actual functionality the same) it would be a lot easier to work with whether it was 20 or 70 entries. Just let people divide up the tracks in to their own buckets whiling voting.

[bjporter]

BTW, guys remember that even though it's time consuming to use this system, there is still like 4-7 hours (didn't do the math) of music. That's a lot more time there than stacking and sorting.

And now that we can see how it works, we're gonna complicate things even more with categories and stuff? Why can't we keep it simple?

That's a great point, and I'm on your side with simplicity, but at this point there is no solid concept, and a lot of Ideas. Jasinsky has an interesting mockup though.
And of course categories would only come in if people really want it. And V'ger and I follow the KISS (keep it simple) concept. To be honest, this stacking this is KISS, however you may need to put in a bit more thought - that's it.

You wonder why there are not many simple voters (as in ppl that haven't submitted tracks for OSC)? Well frankly, because it's very tedious. Heck, some of the participants are not taking the voting seriously and you expect the mere listener to spend days debating whether song A fits category B or C? There's more likely to see less ppl submitting tracks precisely because they don't want to deal with more headaches after working a whole month under pressure to finish their song in time...

I'm thinking that SEVERAL hours of listening is required to hear the songs - and that's why not many more voters come in. It's tedious of course, but those who have passion for it will do it. Beatport, and Indaba are places where voting is easy, we're not a fan of that.

The voting system should not create frustration and confusion; it should be rewarding - in the sense that even if you don't score in the top 5 you'd still feel good seeing who liked you song, how much, etc. It should be simple and not time consuming. And it should be precise - right now you're forced to artificially score songs up and down although you may feel they're equally good.

The current system thankfully is simple, but as I said time consuming - agreed. I think we've gone over this, and remember the old system was simply 5,4,3,2,1 for 5 tracks only (before the google form).

Ok, how about this...

That sounds like the old system, but ability to save, and a 1-5 star rating box right? Also you're saying that the voting and submission period is blended together basically?

[Breeze]

Something like this would help a lot -- part of the issue is just organizing so many tracks.

[satYatunes]

The trouble with the previous voting system (variations of which is now suggested in this thread) was the huge variation in points given. The difference of the sum total given by one voter to the next could vary by as much as 3X (see here for example) and that was not entirely fair and also opened up the window for 'tactical' voting which is not ideal.

I agree with this point totally. I noticed this last month. I think it was not fair. Stacking system is going to solve it, so I am all in for it.
IMO OSC60 wasn't the right one for introducing the new voting system though. Too many tracks, it's overwhelming, hence the frustration. Like V'ger said, we should not be so quick in judging the system. Let it run for another 1-2 OSC, then take a call.

I disagree with categorization or anything similar to that. Just vote on your own judgement, make your own categories, make your own rating scale. Why do you want everyone to follow some fixed categorization. We are over-thinking this, I guess.

Anyway, whatever you do at the end of the day, a good track will always be a good track, no matter what. You can put it in category A or B or C, doesn't even matter. It's all subjective. 5 people may agree, 10 may disagree, who cares, just make sure you were fair to every track. That's all.

Voted, by the way.

[manvanmars]

Here's another option for the pile: for every track submitted give let's say, 3 points to divide, and make it mandatory to use all points to avoid people dealing out only low scores. Might also not be ideal, only it does give the possibility to score those tracks closer together.

Thanks for your input manvanmars. Do you mind explaining the above paragraph a bit more?

Alright, it's pretty simple really, let's say you have an OSC with 10 submissions, 3 points per entry, so everyone starts with 30 points to divide between all tracks, on a scale of 1 to 5 (Or you could start with 27 points, if you would want to eliminate contestants having to score their own track, only then you would have to make an exception for non-participants who should be able to vote on all tracks)

It's quite similar to the other ideas being discussed now I think, with the stacking in point categories.

Differences between the total of points will be gone, which I believe was the main complaint about the old system... And you can still give multiple tracks the same number of points (though a bit more restricted, it does have to add up).

[bjporter]

Another thing - everyone stop making such damn nice tracks please! That doesn't help the voting of course

One of the better OSCs

[bjporter]

Alright, it's pretty simple really, let's say you have an OSC with 10 submissions, 3 points per entry, so everyone starts with 30 points to divide between all tracks, on a scale of 1 to 5 (Or you could start with 27 points, if you would want to eliminate contestants having to score their own track, only then you would have to make an exception for non-participants who should be able to vote on all tracks)

Thanks for the clarification. So a simple 1-5 star rating basically... each track with 3 default at start.

[animehaus]

First of all, voted.

As for the voting process, I believe a mix of stacking and groups would definitely be helpful. I sent some suggestions via PM, let's hope that some of them might be useful.

[idfpower]

That sounds like the old system, but ability to save, and a 1-5 star rating box right? Also you're saying that the voting and submission period is blended together basically?

A bit like the old system, yes. The voting/rating box may be whatever ppl agree upon.
No, submitting and voting are still separate; you can save your mark for a song during the submitting period (to be able to score songs as they are submitted) but the overall score sheet can be forwarded only after the submitting period end. Basically during submitting only the SAVE button would be active, and when voting becomes active, the SUBMIT/SEND whatever you may wanna call it button becomes active too.

[masterhiggins]

First of all, voted.

I really like the idea of rating songs based on categories like originality, mixing quality, etc. I think that would make it a bit more leveled instead of just saying one is ultimately better than another. That's a bit hard to do. A lot of them are really brilliant and it's hard to put one on top of another. I don't even feel like I'm sure about my choices either because several of them had really cool sections that stood out, for example.

-Sam

[dazarz]

Voted!

[G-Roove]

I mocked up a quick wire frame of a half baked solution I thought of after voting on the current revision. I think other people may have been suggesting something like this too. Helps me to visualize things.

Way it would work is everything starts in the 1 point column. As you vote, you drag tracks to a different column as desired.

There could be quota limits for the number of slots available in each column based on the total # of entries.

Another thought is that instead of points, they are just tiers and stacking them in each tier determines the ranking.

with slight changes - points (columns) from 1 to 7 (at least) and there should be min and max limits for each column - maybe min=((total # of entries)/2)/(# of columns) , max=((total # of entries)*2)/(# of columns). The column heading could be red until the criterion is not satisfied.

[crimsonwarlock]

I'm afraid this future voting is going to require formal training