ToneBoosters: New License Transfer Policy

[Syntilla]

Alan Coren once suggested that the only reason for Sainsbury's to exist was to keep the riff-raff out of Waitrose.

ToneBoosters is a veritable Fortnum's of the VST world. But if Jeroen will insist on selling his plugins at Lidl prices, he surely can't be too surprised at the kind of clientele he attracts.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Empathy doesn't require a feeling of righteousness or feeling of superiority. Some of us could put ourselves in the devs shoes for a minute. That's all. You may want to draw all types of inferences from those posts, however, none of mine were personal attacks towards you or any like you who voice those opinions.

Using a little common sense and a dose of selfishness I would like to impress upon most devs not to raise their prices. I see no sense in winning this battle but losing the war. If he raises his prices by a significant amount then nothing was gained. Nothing.

I'm off work this morning so I had a few minuutes to read and share my opinion. I got nothing else to add.

the inference i took from your post was, like with so many others, that those of us criticising were just whining ingrates. my apologies if i got that wrong

as for the empathy ?? what else is there ?? . the only thing that makes me so confident in my position with these kind of threads, is by trying to look at each side as best as i can. i also end up bringing it back to how i would do business, and actually how i deal with people on a day-to-day, and face-to-face manner

i do empathise with his position, but i just don't see the same solution

we have a developer who, by all accounts, is selling himself way short in the current market, given his quality/price ratio. his pricing is seemingly a philosophical decision rather than a lack of confidence in his output, and yet it is possible to draw from this whole thing that perhaps he needs more money to continue as he has been. compensation for the lost sale of a plug makes a lot of sense, as long as it is worthwhile for the seller to even attempt. now that seems to have been addressed, it might be part of a solution

but i would go further.....

i would definitely make it nfr after the first sale. constantly losing on the same plug is bad business, but there is a good balance/trade off for a customer to benefit from a good bargain, especially if they are the kind (like so many seem to be) who would never dream of selling software

further....

i'd raise my prices not by a huge amount, but there is a lot of margin there for these plugs to be higher while still representing incredible value (especially with the bundles). wouldn't it be ironic if one of the most vocal in opposition of the original 10€ xfer fee, would be someone who'd be happy to pay than the developer is currently asking ??

[Compyfox]

No, it was clearly 10€ for every transfer. The text is changed now. I have the text in my cache here we go:

Okay..

OLD text (cause this topic btw):

>cut for important bits<

A license designated as “educational”, “EDU”, “Not for Resale”, “Demo” or “NFR” is not transferrable. As outlined in the end-user license agreement, a registered license can only be transferred after payment of the applicable transfer administration fee of EUR 10,=, AND after ToneBoosters has received all required information for a license transfer, ...

>snip<

The transfer process including the payment of the transfer administration fee is processed by our authorised reseller Avangate and is initiated by filling in this online form for a license transfer. ... >snip<

So far so good.

Take note of the information about eductional licenses and NFR - which is another reminder of what is written in the EULA. But I see nothing in this paragraph where Jeroen asks for a transfer fee per(!) license - from this text alone (and while thinking logically) you can assume that you can sell your whole set/account or just one plugin - as you seem fit. But I do understand that people would as him anyway - just to be sore.

Else... he set a 10EUR fix point alright. The only rope I could knit out of here would have been "but what about the other countries?!". Which is probably the cause of the change of the paragraph, as the reseller is handling that.


Take note of the new, more streamlined paragraph - which makes it even more clear for everyone (take note of my markings in red)

NEW text

License transfers
Please read the end-user license agreement that you agreed upon when downloading ToneBoosters software very carefully before requesting a license transfer to verify that the license you have obtained qualifies for a transfer. One or more registered license(s) can only be transferred after payment of the applicable transfer administration fee, AND after ToneBoosters has received all required information for a license transfer, which includes as a bare minimum:

>snip<

The transfer process including the payment of the transfer administration fee (EUR 6,99) is processed by our authorised reseller Avangate and is initiated by filling in this online form for a license transfer. ... >snip<

Not only made he more clear how the transfer is working, he also changed 10AUD (since he's located in Australia now) to the more "EU common" Euro value of mere 6,99EUR. Maybe it was supposed to be 10AUD to begin with, and he just set the wrong value indication. Maybe not.

But one thing is for certain - you always only paid(!) the license transfer once - not per plugin if you wanted to sell your whole set. So I really, really don't get the fuzz as those people that would have sold more than one plugin, would have gotten away with merely a fraction of the sale price as license transfer.

You can debate about "that" fairness of course.
Like "but why don't bundle sellers pay the same percentage than those that only want to sell one plugin?!" - but in all honesty - do we really have to? Isn't there more important stuff to discuss? Like... "companies that don't allow license transfers" and "I hate the iLok"?!

Cool that he changed his mind maybe he's lurking around here.. ..god bless him anyway!

I'm happy to hear people find that the price change in the transfer fee is acceptable, but I'm still just as shocked at multiple reactions. And that is just my reaction based on my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think that he did so to "please" - maybe it was a mistake after all. But...
"Hooray and scored win-win for the whingers" - it's nice to believe that.

Might yet be lose-lose. All I see so far is that the dev looks to have been bullied into submission.

Wouldn't be the first time on KVR and/or GS actually. But in this case, it was unadjusted.




You won, people. Well done. Good job.
Slow clap.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

where is the recognition that the quality of his plugins outweighs the relative sell price!

there's a ton of recognition for that, not only in this thread, but all over the web. same with klanghelm, valhalla etc

but that has nothing to do with anything

if the developer allows license transfers, then it makes sense that they are worthwhile. things seem to have changed to that effect

i think it far more worthwhile for the developer, and maybe even your valiant efforts, that he consider raising his product prices

I really hate that things devolved into comments of righteousness, whining, dumbness, or valiant efforts... bla, bla, bla. I'm sorry you took a few swipes from another user, but I was leading no such "valiant effort." Just making a point about the quality he offers and that is all.

I'm happy to hear people find that the price change in the transfer fee is acceptable, but I'm still just as shocked at multiple reactions. And that is just my reaction based on my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

it really was about the issue that allowing license transfer is only worthwhile if the seller can actually make money, and that it looked like it was a way of making something nfr without actually saying so

is it so crazy that people should want to make sense of that, nay, even criticise it, without others coming in accusing of penny-pinching, being too dumb to have jobs in the first place etc etc

as innocent as your comment reads, within the context of the thread it also seemed like much of the same. i guess not

[Compyfox]

Actually, it is known since the existence of ToneBoosters, that resold licenses turn NFR. There should have never been a debate about it.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Alan Coren once suggested that the only reason for Sainsbury's to exist was to keep the riff-raff out of Waitrose.

ToneBoosters is a veritable Fortnum's of the VST world. But if Jeroen will insist on selling his plugins at Lidl prices, he surely can't be too surprised at the kind of clientele he attracts.

hide behind coren's typical lame snobbery if you wish, but it takes less effort to just call someone a wanker :shrug

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Actually, it is known since the existence of ToneBoosters, that resold licenses turn NFR. There should have never been a debate about it.

actually, i didn't know that

[murnau]

But I see nothing in this paragraph where Jeroen asks for a transfer fee per(!) license - from this text alone (and while thinking logically) you can assume that you can sell your whole set/account or just one plugin - as you seem fit.

Well thats simple enough:

Old:
ToneBoosters has received all required information for a license transfer, which includes as a bare minimum: The name of the product to be transferred.

New:
The name of the product(s) to be transferred from the current to the new licensee.

..Furthermore TB changed the whole text to reflect that you can transfer more then one plugin for the one fee. Can't see what's so bad now anyway? This guy is great and stay great. For me this change of the transfer policy is now really fair. 6,99€ for every transfer no matter how many plugins is reasonable.

[Compyfox]

Seriously - penny-pinching!

[murnau]

Seriously - penny-pinching!

Not really,if you have like many a few plugins from TB and want to sell it all in one this 2nd change of the transfer policy now makes alot of difference but do the math on your own..

[Compyfox]

Again - yet another win for the "righteous" people in here.

Ever though that the text was not altered due to "adjusted criticism" but due to the fact to make things more clear and reduce the flood of mails asking the same stuff over and over?!


If I would have thought about selling my plugins, I would have gotten in touch with the devs directly and ask specific questions (just to be sure, and to make this right) rather than assume and/or go by hate-fests. This is just common sense (IMO!). So I can definitely think that Jeroes was bombed with inquiries, so he only made it even more clear.

No conspiracy or rip-off going on IMO.


But complaining (as first task) is so much more effective.

[murnau]

Maybe you read OP first? Your conclusions whats going on here and whatever motivation is behind is not applicable to say at least. Look who's talking.

[Skorpius]

maybe the thread prompted him to think that actually the price was a little high relative to the initial price, and that if he were not fixing it that way to make it quasi-nfr

Exactly my opinion. Escpecially since Jeroen is known to often turn up in TB-related threads. I'm pretty sure he has thoroughly read this thread and, due to the complaints of many users and their argumentation, has understood that his initial idea of charging 10 € per plug-in transfer wasn't the best of his ideas.

Anyway, I'm glad he has revised his original license transfer text and decided to reduce the fee to a level that seems far more acceptable to lots of people.

[Skorpius]

This will no doubt be interpreted as a glorious victory for the righteous whingers.

Actually the first time I clicked on this link (which was at the beginning of the thread), the wording was the same. But I never bothered to click that shop link to check the fee.

Maybe somebody saw 11AUD and then went nuts on the dev.

No, it was clearly 10€ for every transfer. The text is changed now.

Exactly. It was 10 € per transfer, as was mentioned in the original posting.

And what lnikj calls "a glorious victory for the righteous whingers", I'd rather call an adjustment of a business policy that was going to scare lots of customers away. IMHO, there's nothing philosophical or sociological about this discussion and the subsequent policy revision of TB. It's really all about basic marketing: The customer is king!

[JJ_Jettflow]

Again - yet another win for the "righteous" people in here.

What is so "righteous" about a discussing both the negative and positive aspects a developer's policy change? I thought that was what forums were for...discussing things? Or are we only supposed to say nice, positive things here?